Omar F*****G Khadr is getting $10.5 milion

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Did he explain how they came up with $10.5 friken million though?

I know a fellow that was hit by a government vehicle(RCMP) and spent 4 months in hospital with a broken back and crushed hand, he'll never be the same. no more hockey, hiking or even his favorite sport golf was taken from him by an out of control RCMP officer chasing another car on an icy highway.

He was awarded a lousy 640k but I guess it was because he can still do his desk job.

Trudeau is a moron, plain and simple

Well since these two cases are clearly identical I'd say Khadr got ripped off, the fellow you know(who must be real and a true friend who would tell you the details of such a large settlement) got $640k for his time spent in hospital. Khadr only got $437.5k for every 4 months he spent in Guantanamo.

Hey wait a minute, when did this happen? Why didn't the government announce this fellow's settlement right away? Why did they give him any money? It wasn't the RCMP officers fault, he should have sued the perp he was chasing for damages.

Pardon all the sarcasm but seriously calling this an apples and oranges comparison doesn't seem sufficient enough.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Pardon all the sarcasm but seriously calling this an apples and oranges comparison doesn't seem sufficient enough.

No problem but.

Khadr murdered someone, Don was just driving down the road, Khadr can play sports today if he wants to, Don cannot. Khadr was a terrorist and Don wasn't.

Khadr should be in jail not enjoying our millions of our tax dollars.

Edit:
Oh forgot, The perp he was chasing was a better driver, he got away

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

No problem but.

Khadr murdered someone, Don was just driving down the road, Khadr can play sports today if he wants to, Don cannot. Khadr was a terrorist and Don wasn't.

Khadr should be in jail not enjoying our millions of our tax dollars.

Edit:
Oh forgot, The perp he was chasing was a better driver, he got away

Khadr was a child soldier engaged in war, tortured and held without a fair trial, and stripped of his rights, rights which Speer and many others fight to protect every day.

Don wasn't.

Khadr belongs right where he is.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Khadr murdered someone,

It takes about five minutes to read into this to understand that the "murder" is extremely flimsy. Check it out. You'll see.

And if you don't see that, then check into the "confession". The guy was held and tortured for years before the "confession".

Do you believe a confession forced under torture is legit? Yes or no?

Because nobody denies he was tortured. Nobody even denies he was told that if he refuse to confess, he wouldn't even get a trial. Does that really seem like justice to you?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

No problem but.

Khadr murdered someone, Don was just driving down the road, Khadr can play sports today if he wants to, Don cannot. Khadr was a terrorist and Don wasn't.

Khadr should be in jail not enjoying our millions of our tax dollars.

Edit:
Oh forgot, The perp he was chasing was a better driver, he got away

The only evidence he was convicted on was a confession which he later admitted was given just to stop the torture. People making false confessions happens more often than we will ever know about, whether it's through coercion or to get a plea deal, it doesn't make them guilty. The same as someone giving false testimony to get out of charges doesn't make them innocent. Not that this is even relevant given the comparison you're trying to make here but Khadr is blind in one eye and has a messed up shoulder because he wasn't given proper medical attention for his injuries, so I'm not sure I agree with your statement that he can play sports. What happened to your friend sounds like it was an accident, unless you can prove otherwise. What happened to Khadr was done intentionally. There's simply no comparing these two cases.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Khadr was a child soldier engaged in war, tortured and held without a fair trial, and stripped of his rights, rights which Speer and many others fight to protect every day.

Don wasn't.

Khadr belongs right where he is.

Your definition of a soldier is different than mine, He was involved in terrorism not war, reports are he was shot pointing a pistol at American soldiers after the dust cleared from his apparent grenade throwing exercise. Either which way he was there, his dad was a known terrorist and where there's smoke there's usually fire.

The Americans held and possibly tortured him because they felt he killed one of there's, do you really think they would let him go if Canada asked them too? Why didn't he sue the USA if he was innocent? They were the ones that did the torturing.

Anyway, I know I'm in a loosing battle here, it's the same every time with you when the muslim world is involved, guilty or not, it just doesn't matter

[calgaryblood]

Why didn't he sue the USA for violating his Canadian rights? Honestly, think about what you're saying.

[OMG!WTF!]

I was raised by hillbillies. We were a gun loving clan, always out shooting stuff, gophers, rabbits, anything so long as we didn't have to deal with it after it was dead. Hicks by any metric.

I went along with it because that's what we did. I probably thought it was fun too. I liked hanging out with my older bros. When I turned 14 I got a summer job, met a few friends, got my learner's license. At fifteen i made the basketball team. By the time I was 16 I got a car, a better summer gig and more friends. At that point I couldn't stand what my family did and to this day still think they're a bunch of psychos. Who shoots stuff for fun? Idiots, the lot of them.

That's why I don't blame Omar. I don't think he had the same experience I did. It's not like he could have hopped a bus back to Canada where his outside life provided him a reasonable alternative. His summer job was jihad. His friends were his family and they were all psychos. His team mates were terrorists. What was he supposed to do?

I think he's not suing the Americans because they probably didn't break any laws...American law. Score one for the Patriot Act. International law is likely well beyond the scope of most lawyers willing to help him. I really don't know though.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Why didn't he sue the USA for violating his Canadian rights? Honestly, think about what you're saying.

How about human rights?

[EldrickOnIce]

After Khadr apologized to the families of his victims, he paid them how much in damages?

If he split the 'winnings' with the families of his victims, I would have zero problem with this outcome.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Your definition of a soldier is different than mine, He was involved in terrorism not war, reports are he was shot pointing a pistol at American soldiers after the dust cleared from his apparent grenade throwing exercise. Either which way he was there, his dad was a known terrorist and where there's smoke there's usually fire.

The Americans held and possibly tortured him because they felt he killed one of there's, do you really think they would let him go if Canada asked them too? Why didn't he sue the USA if he was innocent? They were the ones that did the torturing.

Anyway, I know I'm in a loosing battle here, it's the same every time with you when the muslim world is involved, guilty or not, it just doesn't matter

Why isn't he a solider? This is what I don't understand from those opposed to this settlement. It's all based around him killing an innocent father in an act of terrorism. Why is the US invading a foreign country bombing them soldiers and the people that they are killing terrorists?

Do you have links to the statements that he was holding a pistol when shot. My understanding was he was shot in the back but there are 3/4 different accounts as to what happened. I haven't seen one where he was armed when shot.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Your definition of a soldier is different than mine, He was involved in terrorism not war, reports are he was shot pointing a pistol at American soldiers after the dust cleared from his apparent grenade throwing exercise. Either which way he was there, his dad was a known terrorist and where there's smoke there's usually fire.

The Americans held and possibly tortured him because they felt he killed one of there's, do you really think they would let him go if Canada asked them too? Why didn't he sue the USA if he was innocent? They were the ones that did the torturing.

Anyway, I know I'm in a loosing battle here, it's the same every time with you when the muslim world is involved, guilty or not, it just doesn't matter

This post got me thinking, so it's quoted not to disagree or accuse but because it was the catalyst for my train of thought.

1. If your country is invaded by a foreign nation, if you fight the foreign nation is that terrorism? Can you be a terrorist by attacking an invasion on home soil?

2. Do we have any source that has the official documents filed with the US military tribunal, and the Canadian courts? I've seen a few news reports and posters claiming facts but I haven't really seen anything backing up those claims. IE: "reports are he was shot pointing a pistol at American soldiers after the dust cleared from his apparent grenade throwing exercise." I haven't actually seen that reported anywhere. I have read the National Observer article posted above (http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017...dr-isnt-guilty) where it outlines the various theories of the case, but even half of the author's citations are from news other agencies, which I trust as fact only as far as I can throw them.

3. Do we as a society throw out a burden of proof when it comes to Islamic militants? Be they a loose definition of terrorist, or formal military? Are African children enlisted/entrapped/enslaved by warlords child soldiers but Asian and middle eastern children enlisted/entrapped/enslaved by warlords terrorists?

4. People were beside themselves outraged over the treatment of Brendan Dassey a 16 year old who was coerced into confessing to the first degree murder (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=151590); but Khadr who was younger, and tortured also had suspect circumstantial evidence against him confessed after 10 years of waterboarding, dedicating himself, other torture techniques, and his confession is the Lord's truth? According to the Toronto Star the first official account of the incident which was filed the next day by the commanding officer of the raid stated that the person that threw the grande was the person shooting the AK-47 and the target was eliminated (https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...t_altered.html). I haven't seen the report, but if true what's the big difference between Dassey and Khadr?

[OMG!WTF!]

What sums it up for me is that he was and is the only enemy combatant charged with murder in Afghanistan. Pushing 10k combat deaths and this guy is the only one who committed murder?

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

2. Do we have any source that has the official documents filed with the US military tribunal, and the Canadian courts? I've seen a few news reports and posters claiming facts but I haven't really seen anything backing up those claims. IE: "reports are he was shot pointing a pistol at American soldiers after the dust cleared from his apparent grenade throwing exercise." I haven't actually seen that reported anywhere. I have read the National Observer article posted above (http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017...dr-isnt-guilty) where it outlines the various theories of the case, but even half of the author's citations are from news other agencies, which I trust as fact only as far as I can throw them.

The most definitive account that I have found was the CTIF report from OC-1. That was the first soldier into the compound and the one who actually shot Khadr.

http://humanrights.ucdavis.edu/proje...ar%20Khadr.pdf

Official report, redacted of course.

[firebug]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

This post got me thinking, so it's quoted not to disagree or accuse but because it was the catalyst for my train of thought.

1. If your country is invaded by a foreign nation, if you fight the foreign nation is that terrorism? Can you be a terrorist by attacking an invasion on home soil?

2. Do we have any source that has the official documents filed with the US military tribunal, and the Canadian courts? I've seen a few news reports and posters claiming facts but I haven't really seen anything backing up those claims. IE: "reports are he was shot pointing a pistol at American soldiers after the dust cleared from his apparent grenade throwing exercise." I haven't actually seen that reported anywhere. I have read the National Observer article posted above (http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017...dr-isnt-guilty) where it outlines the various theories of the case, but even half of the author's citations are from news other agencies, which I trust as fact only as far as I can throw them.

3. Do we as a society throw out a burden of proof when it comes to Islamic militants? Be they a loose definition of terrorist, or formal military? Are African children enlisted/entrapped/enslaved by warlords child soldiers but Asian and middle eastern children enlisted/entrapped/enslaved by warlords terrorists?

4. People were beside themselves outraged over the treatment of Brendan Dassey a 16 year old who was coerced into confessing to the first degree murder (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=151590); but Khadr who was younger, and tortured also had suspect circumstantial evidence against him confessed after 10 years of waterboarding, dedicating himself, other torture techniques, and his confession is the Lord's truth? According to the Toronto Star the first official account of the incident which was filed the next day by the commanding officer of the raid stated that the person that threw the grande was the person shooting the AK-47 and the target was eliminated (https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...t_altered.html). I haven't seen the report, but if true what's the big difference between Dassey and Khadr?

Terrorists:

Spoiler!

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

After Khadr apologized to the families of his victims, he paid them how much in damages?

If he split the 'winnings' with the families of his victims, I would have zero problem with this outcome.

Winnings.... How many people would take $10 million for 10 years of torture?

[GaiJin]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Winnings.... How many people would take $10 million for 10 years of torture?

Reword that, he wasn't tortured for 10 years continuously. In fact he delayed his own movement from Gitmo by continually filing motions and firing lawyers. What everyone should be generally pissed about, is that this deal wasn't even suppose to be public. Yes the supreme court said his rights were violated, but they didn't say give him 10.5 million. In my view, the fact that he was fighting against a society that was willing to eventually give him his freedom, is payment enough.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by GaiJin

Reword that, he wasn't tortured for 10 years continuously. In fact he delayed his own movement from Gitmo by continually filing motions and firing lawyers. What everyone should be generally pissed about, is that this deal wasn't even suppose to be public. Yes the supreme court said his rights were violated, but they didn't say give him 10.5 million. In my view, the fact that he was fighting against a society that was willing to eventually give him his freedom, is payment enough.

Would you rather we spend another 10 million on lawyers so that the courts could tell us we owe him 20 million? Hmm? Would you now?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by GaiJin

In my view, the fact that he was fighting against a society that was willing to eventually give him his freedom, is payment enough.

Give him his freedom? By what right (legal or moral) would Canada deny him his freedom? He hasn't been convicted of any offence in Canadian law? Indeed, he hasn't even been charged with one. To the extent that he was guilty of an offence under American law (which, despite his conviction, remains a rather controversial question), he has served the sentence imposed.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Would you rather we spend another 10 million on lawyers so that the courts could tell us we owe him 20 million? Hmm? Would you now?

Yes

Originally Posted by Delgar

Even if by the letter of the law he gets compensation, he should have been taken to trial to get it.

Would have been one of the most important trials in Canadian history. The evidence that would come out would probably also very embarrassing for the government, but so be it. This needed to finished publicly not via a confidential closed door negotiation where the facts are hidden.

Consider how this looks to the soldiers of Canada. They die/get maimed and at most they get a meager pension or an honourable funeral. Think how this looks to the bad guys -- their combatant is now rich beyond his wildest dreams.