[Signing] McDavid signs extension: 8 years, 12.5M per.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I can get on board with hating the Oilers and their players.

But when posters talk about McDavid's skills etc. their judgement is clearly clouded. He's about to me the league's best player. Posters can acknowledge that and still hate him.

It's hard to take some of these posts seriously when you know that the poster is so jaded he cannot give any kind of objective opinion.

Looking for serious, objective posts about Edmonton (the city, the team and its players) on a Calgary Flames message board.

Really, really intelligent plan.

[rain_e]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

When did the NHL become the NBA? 1 Player doesn't make a championship team. I would rather have Johnny and Monny over McNutsack

As a Calgary Flames fan who looks at skill and what a player like McDavid can do I would go ahead and trade Johnny and Monny for McDavid if the opportunity was presented. McDavid could make Ferland look like a star.

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I vote for CrimeDog McGruff keeper of the Sacred stone.

He will always be Collar McBroken to me... who came up with that one, was it you?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

When did the NHL become the NBA? 1 Player doesn't make a championship team. I would rather have Johnny and Monny over McNutsack

Except it's not 'and' unless there is an 'and' with McDavid also (if you want to balance salary).
So you can say I'd prefer Gaudreau and Monahan over McDavid and Slepyshev (or Pakarinin, or any other too many vowel guys), so be it.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I can get on board with hating the Oilers and their players.

But when posters talk about McDavid's skills etc. their judgement is clearly clouded. He's about to be the league's best player. Posters can acknowledge that and still hate him.

It's hard to take some of these posts seriously when you know that the poster is so jaded he cannot give any kind of objective opinion.

Is anybody really saying that?

I think you'll find people who think Crosby is still the best player in the league, but nobody doubts that McDavid is in that conversation, and he's 20.

This conversation is about whether you would commit $12.5M of your cap for 8 years to one player, regardless of who he is. I would bet, dollars to donuts, that most of us would too.

But it's an open question with some interesting viewpoints.

And never forget that hating Edmonton is one of your biggest duties as a Flames fan, which includes making fun of them for overcommitting to one player, regardless of how objective that opinion is.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I can get on board with hating the Oilers and their players.

But when posters talk about McDavid's skills etc. their judgement is clearly clouded. He's about to be the league's best player. Posters can acknowledge that and still hate him.

It's hard to take some of these posts seriously when you know that the poster is so jaded he cannot give any kind of objective opinion.

This hasn't happened. At best, earlier on (like in the WC) he was criticized for doing the same thing (which he did well) too often, which was the speedy drive to the corner of the net. This year he was given a better passing option and had a bigger body on front of the net as well.

But no one said "he's crap" or even "he's not as good as they think".

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

When did the NHL become the NBA? 1 Player doesn't make a championship team. I would rather have Johnny and Monny over McNutsack

I hate Edmonton as much as anyone, but you have your Flames goggles on if you'd rather have Gaudreau and Monahan over McDavid. You put McDavid on our team with our D and 2 through 4th line depth, and we'd pretty much be unstoppable.

Every time I watched McDavid last year I instantly thought to myself.... "####, this is easily the best player of the league and we are going to have to deal with him for at least a decade while he continues to get better"

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I hate Edmonton as much as anyone, but you are delusional if you'd rather have Gaudreau and Monahan over McDavid. You put McDavid on our team with our D and 2 through 4th line depth, and we'd pretty much be unstoppable.

Every time I watched McDavid last year I instantly thought to myself.... "####, this is easily the best player of the league and we are going to have to deal with him for at least a decade while he continues to get better"

That's not a bad thing. The Oilers had Gretzky, the Flames had to match them. And they did.

The Oilers and Flames haven't pushed each other for twenty years and both are worse for it. "At least we're better than Edmonton/Calgary" is pathetic when either side says it - we have both been largely irrelevant outside of Cinderella seasons.

But not now. Now Calgary has built some mixture of Nashville and Chicago, and Edmonton has the best young player in the world.

Let them fight.

[PepsiFree]

In a cap world, there is a valid debate to be had over whether you'd rather have an amazing player or two really good-to-great players for the same money.

The high importance of the team game and line combinations just blurs the lines in the debate. I think there are valid cases to be made by those who prefer McDavid over Gaudreau and Monahan, and vice versa.

[The Cobra]

The hate on this board for McDavid is sometimes embarrassing. I get the hate for Edmonton, but Calgary would kill for a guy like McDavid. To pretend otherwise comes off looking like sour grapes.


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[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

In a cap world, there is a valid debate to be had over whether you'd rather have an amazing player or two really good-to-great players for the same money.

The high importance of the team game and line combinations just blurs the lines in the debate. I think there are valid cases to be made by those who prefer McDavid over Gaudreau and Monahan, and vice versa.

I don't think there is. Generational players like McDavid make average players great. They don't need you to spend another 14 million on two linemates. Look at the junk Crosby plays with in Pittsburgh. He doesn't play with the Malkins and Kessels.

You get an instant first line, and can spend the money elsewhere. Gaudreau and Monahan are really good players, but they aren't very effective without each other or similar skill level players.

Edmonton has done a terrible job of spending the money around McDavid though, there's no arguing that.

I don't think there's anyone outside of us Calgary Flames fans that would even think about not jumping on that trade if it was available.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The hate on this board for McDavid is sometimes embarrassing. I get the hate for Edmonton, but Calgary would kill for a guy like McDavid. To pretend otherwise comes off looking like sour grapes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm not really sure what you're expecting. Flames fans on a Flames board talking trash about a rival team and their players is embarrassing? Maybe to an Oilers fan.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

That's not a bad thing. The Oilers had Gretzky, the Flames had to match them. And they did.

The Oilers and Flames haven't pushed each other for twenty years and both are worse for it. "At least we're better than Edmonton/Calgary" is pathetic when either side says it - we have both been largely irrelevant outside of Cinderella seasons.

But not now. Now Calgary has built some mixture of Nashville and Chicago, and Edmonton has the best young player in the world.

Let them fight.

Yup, it forced the Flames to try and match, and we did get a cup, but let's not pretend we matched. Last time I checked they had a dynasty where we had one cup. The difference between the two was one generational player named Gretzky, and they have that same guy in McDavid now. Fortunately for us though, with the cap and the Oilers ridiculous contracts, they aren't going to be able surround McDavid with as much talent as they could with Gretzky.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Yup, it forced the Flames to try and match, and we did get a cup, but let's not pretend we matched. Last time I checked they had a dynasty where we had one cup. The difference between the two was one generational player named Gretzky, and they have that same guy in McDavid now. Fortunately for us though, with the cap and the Oilers ridiculous contracts, they aren't going to be able surround McDavid with as much talent as they could with Gretzky.

When the other team is the 80s Oilers and you manage to get to two finals and win one, you matched.

The point is, it's good when Edmonton and Calgary push each other to be better, and don't settle for just being better than each other

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I don't think there is. Generational players like McDavid make average players great. They don't need you to spend another 14 million on two linemates. Look at the junk Crosby plays with in Pittsburgh. He doesn't play with the Malkins and Kessels.

You get an instant first line, and can spend the money elsewhere. Gaudreau and Monahan are really good players, but they aren't very effective without each other or similar skill level players.

Gaudreau and Monahan are a first line. I'm saying you can choose that pairing or McDavid. $13 million, and you can fill two spots with top players, or one spot with the best/second best player in the world. It's a valid debate.

Individually neither come close to McDavid, he's exceptional, but this isn't the pre-cap era where you can spend all sorts of money on one or two players and then just spend another 14 million to compliment that line.

Maybe McDavid plays with two scrubs at $1M per, and G/M play with Ferland at $2M. Same cost, maybe similar production, but the same amount of money to spend elsewhere and zero indication that you're any further ahead.

There's just no indication that shows one puts you clearly ahead of the other. When you're filling out a team you have to think a little harder than "give me the best player regardless of cost."

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I hate Edmonton as much as anyone, but you have your Flames goggles on if you'd rather have Gaudreau and Monahan over McDavid. You put McDavid on our team with our D and 2 through 4th line depth, and we'd pretty much be unstoppable.

Every time I watched McDavid last year I instantly thought to myself.... "####, this is easily the best player of the league and we are going to have to deal with him for at least a decade while he continues to get better"

Count me in the crowd that would take Gaudreau and Monahan over McDavid. One player doesn't win you a championship. One forward is completely stoppable. You need depth and you need multiple threats on a single line. I think McDavid is the best offensive player in the game, but Gaudreau and Monahan are no slouches. Combined they will easily outscore McJesus, and do so while providing better use of cap dollars. That's not to discount the talent of any player. That's just the way the business side works out.

[Benched]

Originally Posted by New Era

Count me in the crowd that would take Gaudreau and Monahan over McDavid. One player doesn't win you a championship. One forward is completely stoppable. You need depth and you need multiple threats on a single line. I think McDavid is the best offensive player in the game, but Gaudreau and Monahan are no slouches. Combined they will easily outscore McJesus, and do so while providing better use of cap dollars. That's not to discount the talent of any player. That's just the way the business side works out.

Yep

+injury risk. Harder to injure two guys than 1.
+slump risk. Harder for multiple guys to slump at the same time than 1.
+performance risk. Harder for multiple guys' play to drop off than 1.



I still think I'd go with the superstar vs. 2 players of 'good/high' value, just because of the entertainment/marketing value (business decision-wise)

But there is definitely a debate to be had.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The hate on this board for McDavid is sometimes embarrassing. I get the hate for Edmonton, but Calgary would kill for a guy like McDavid. To pretend otherwise comes off looking like sour grapes...

But hating McDavid is far, FAR different from undermining his skill or impact on the game. The former is going to happen all the time here, and a big reason for that is because of the latter. You can't change that and it looks silly to lecture others for how they "should" respond as Flames fans to the best player playing for their biggest rival team.

I hate Connor McDavid. I will always hate McDavid so long as he continues to play hockey in Edmonton. No one can take away my hate.

[Weitz]

I think comparing 1 player vs 2 players is hard.

I would say Would you rather have McDavid and Maroon at $14 million or Monahan and Gaudreau at $13 million? 57 goals and 85 assists in 163 games or 45 goals and 74 assists in 154 games? I don't know if Maroon will be back after this year or if his replacement will put up similar numbers but I am sure you will see value guys rotating in on the top line with McDavid.

Both are solid pairs and great first lines.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I hate Connor McDavid. I will always hate McDavid so long as he continues to play hockey in Edmonton. No one can take away my hate.

yup encapsulates my feelings as well... wish nothing but a middling career for that guy while he wears that jersey

IF people are seeking a McDavid lovefest, they might want to visit HF's Oiler board... you get your annual fill in 5 mins i'd bet