[Signing] Flames re-sign Stone (3 yrs, $3.5 mil AAV)

[IrishSpring2013]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Haha, so funny that you use the word empirically, which means verifiable by observation rather than theory, when we know that you don't actually watch, but just spout arguments based on theory from spreadsheets.

destroyed.. CorsiHockeyLeague should be forced to change his user name to mike"phowned

[CliffFletcher]

Hamonic and Stone are both strong penalty-killers. I'm guessing Hamilton doesn't get much PK time going forward, which is a good thing. Keeps him fresh. Also, he's not great on the PK.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Well there is a range of outcomes in between and the 3.5 doesn't disappear if he's terrible... it presents a handicap to making subsequent improvements.

I'm honestly curious why you haven't been quite this vocal about bad signings in the past. You've chosen this hill to die on and I'm not sure why. You've clearly made your opinions known, and certainly aren't changing anybody else's opinion with your approach. Why keep posting?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Except it doesn't... because if a better option presents itself internally, we can move Stone for pics.

I said his 3.5 presents a handicap "if he's terrible"... teams aren't generally lining up to trade picks for terrible players.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Gaudfather

Calgary's defence - now the wall of denial! Thou shalt not pass!

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Such a bad signing. God they learned both from Smid and Engelland. Guys making this type of scratch playing 10 minutes a night on the bottom pair will never live up to this contract. I would've preferred Anderson and Murphy battling it out for Right D. Even Franson on a PTO.

Why do the Flames always clog their line ups with overpaid vets

Because Anderson and Murphy are not ready to be regular NHLers that help a competitive team. The Flames also need depth because injuries WILL happen to the top 4.

Stone is also 27 and not even old. And Engelland was a more than serviceable player and earned most of his contract for the toughness he brought on top of defensive duties, so that's not even a valid example.

There is still room for two young d-men as the #6 and 7, so stop crying.

This post is terrible needed here for sure.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

...I tend to actually have statistical evidence to back up my views. You might not like the evidence, you might want to discount it (which, go nuts), but your constant visceral anger at having someone disagree with you for actual empirically based reasons is kind of revealing...

So, you should know that while modern hockey analytics are proving to be useful, there remains a TONNE of debate about their actual long-term viability as scientific tools.

[activeStick]

I also clearly don't know anything about hockey and shouldn't be trusted in any predictions. Over the last month or so:

- predicted Bouma would be given the benefit of the doubt in camp and eventually make the team and plus Flames don't like to buy players out...Treliving buys Bouma out.

- Snow asking too much for Hamonic, never gonna happen... Treliving acquires Hamonic.

- pretty sure Rittich backs up next year... Treliving acquires Lack.

- K, top 4 is solid, Treliving probably lets the kids fill 5/6 spots and fills a forward position instead... Treliving signs Stone for 5th spot.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

There is still room for two young d-men as the #6 and 7, so stop crying.

that's the really fun part. Some posters here claim that the path for the youngsters is blocked now, yet all they have to do to win a spot is beat out Matt Bartkowski.

[etdpratt]

I am not coming with any sort of conclusive opinion on the spending on Defense that we have seen the past few days. I only bring up that I was looking at defenseman spending by team and noticed that with the Stone signing we have the most dollars committed for any team.

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/positional/defenseman/


Granted we have more signed right now than a lot of other teams, but what are your thoughts. Do you think we should have given one of the young players a shot and spent money on offense?

[devo22]

Darren Haynes‏ @DarrenWHaynes
Close to family is nice but biggest factor for Stone: "It's a really good hockey club. That's something I haven't been part of a whole lot."

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by devo22

that's the really fun part. Some posters here claim that the path for the youngsters is blocked now, yet all they have to do to win a spot is beat out Matt Bartkowski.

And one could argue there is more room for a rookie now that we have a solid #5 for them to play with and learn from.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

I'm honestly curious why you haven't been quite this vocal about bad signings in the past.

Because we were rebuilding... I never like bad contracts but until now the stakes were fairly low. Tally up Stone + Brouwer + Stajan + All the buyout Dollars and think about what that could add to the team...

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

You've chosen this hill to die on and I'm not sure why.

Frustration. The team had finally cleared a bunch of bad money off the backend (Wideman/Engellend/Smid) and then they turned abound and plopped another one right back on. With the Salary Cap building a Cup worth team is an efficiency contest and I don't think this is remotely an efficient use of dollars.

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

You've clearly made your opinions known, and certainly aren't changing anybody else's opinion with your approach. Why keep posting?

Mostly because people keep replying.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I said his 3.5 presents a handicap "if he's terrible"... teams aren't generally lining up to trade picks for terrible players.

And what about Stone leads you to believe he'll be "Terrible"?

Even if you don't agree with most that he was very solid for us, saying he'll be terrible seems like a massive stretch and worse case scenario.

[Reign of Fire]

Trump can learn a thing or two from Treliving about building a wall.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Haha, so funny that you use the word empirically, which means verifiable by observation rather than theory, when we know that you don't actually watch, but just spout arguments based on theory from spreadsheets.

Or maybe it's the Peter12 version of science and empirical evidence, which relies heavily on feelings

[Tinordi]

I'm not a huge Stone fan, I recognize that his advanced stats are pretty terrible. However, you need to take a step back to look at what's going on. We just signed 5 top-4 d-men. Stone's inking was on a bargain contract for $3.5 million at a none too severe term of 3 years. Essentially he's excellent injury insurance and if everything goes well, he would be one of the best #5-6 defencemen in the league. This also locks in our bottom pairing where we now have the option to run with Kulak or Bart and not worry about it being a horror story.

Hard to be upset with this move. The opportunity cost here is also fairly non-existent. There are literally no UFA ring wingers that signing stone would displace. Like it or not, our forward group needs to develop from the inside. Signing Stone didn't change this fact one way or the other.

[FlamesAddiction]

I like the deal on paper, but it does seem like they are making the defence a little heavy. Hopefully there is more money to throw around for a RW still.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, you should know that while modern hockey analytics are proving to be useful, there remains a TONNE of debate about their actual long-term viability as scientific tools.

Science is not the endeavour of being right, it's improving upon the wrong

[Icon]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I also clearly don't know anything about hockey and shouldn't be trusted in any predictions. Over the last month or so:

- predicted Bouma would be given the benefit of the doubt in camp and eventually make the team and plus Flames don't like to buy players out...Treliving buys Bouma out.

- Snow asking too much for Hamonic, never gonna happen... Treliving acquires Hamonic.

- pretty sure Rittich backs up next year... Treliving acquires Lack.

- K, top 4 is solid, Treliving probably lets the kids fill 5/6 spots and fills a forward position instead... Treliving signs Stone for 5th spot.

Quick, assume we don't acquire a superstar RW for a bag of pucks!