[Trade] Flames get Travis Hamonic + 4th for a 1st and 2x2nds

[IrishSpring2013]

I haven't been taken in by a pdo spike since my first marriage.. Never again...

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Yeah, and after Sbisa got selected, Benning called him one of their better defenders last season. I know everyone liked to think Dim Jim is an idiot, but surely even he knows that's nonsense. GM's lie. They're also sometimes wrong.

Which makes it read like you're implying you're not, because you spew stats.

To anyone who actually watched all those games (and I don't believe for a second that you did... care to answer to that?) Brodie played with much more poise and confident knowing Stone was a more responsible partner.

The stats do have merit, but you and a couple other posters who take them as gospel and then act like your logic is infallible as a result are completely drunk on them like a religious fanatic.

[Textcritic]

I get the argument that Stone is not an ideal option in the top-four, but it is ludicrous to deny that he would be fantastically well suited to play #5. Of course the price has to fit, but I suspect there are not many better options to casting Stone on the third pairing.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

^That's the point. He's a bottom pairing defenseman, so if you want to bring him back, pay him like one. 3.5 million is not bottom pairing money. Or, if you want to spend that money, then yes, there are better options.

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

We're talking about a guy who blew out an MCL to end his season in April 2015, and again had a knee injury in April 2016, and then had a knee injury in January 2017. The issue I'm concerned about is physical, not mental.

Which is fair. It's a risk, certainly. I would like to think the Flames did their homework and gained some comfort on that front before the trade, though, and from my limited 10 games or so of Islanders viewing it didn't seem to me like his skating was off. But I'm not saying you're wrong to be concerned, either. Time will tell.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Who do people think management is building the team around? Is it Gio? Meaning the window is tied to Gio maintaining a high level of play given his age.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I do see people thinking that - if the cap hit is reasonable - he'd be very good #5 that would give us depth. And that's two fold. Stone - (young player) is a lot better option than (young player) + (young player) if the price is right. And more importantly, if there's an injury to the top four, Stone is much better suited to step up and play those minutes.

If Stone prices himself out of that position I would like to see a Cody Franson or Del Zotto, someone 3 mill or less for 3 years or less who in a pinch can step into the top 4 if there is an injury.

Honestly, if now we signed Engelland like we did three years ago, it would be perfect now.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

You might want to tell this to Treliving, who spoke at length about how well Stone played with Brodie and attributed much of the late season success to how the move solidified the position.

Who needs data to help give a perspective...the GM talked up one of his trades as the reason why the team performed well! He's obviously unbiased!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Who do people think management is building the team around? Is it Gio?

I don't think it is just one player. From Treliving's interviews and his activity over the course of his tenure we can see that he prioritizes 1) centre depth, and 2) a strong defense.

*EDIT* To continue with your point, it looks to me as though management is laying the groundwork for a transition plan for when Giordano's age becomes a factor. The team is not "tied" to any individual player. I expect that Treliving believes they can continue to be highly competitive beyond the next five years.

[GoJetsGo]

I think 3.5 is a tolerable cap hit for Stone at #5, because we're not paying a premium for the players in our top four. That's the factor some are missing. Hamilton, Brodie and Hamonic are very good value contracts which allows for a bit more cap space to be allocated to the bottom pairing.

If, however, Stone is looking to get paid the UFA premium and wants more than that, I agree, look elsewhere.

But for what he is, at 3.5 or so, he'd be a very good bottom pairing d-man and we know he can step up into the top 4 if there's an injury and be serviceable there for some time. I like the Kulaks and such, but not playing in the top 4 next season if there's an injury.

[MrMike]

Can anyone point me in a direction to find the top 20 or so ufa defenceman this year?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Who do people think management is building the team around? Is it Gio? Meaning the window is tied to Gio maintaining a high level of play given his age.

Nah. Hamilton is going to be the best D-man on the team for the next five years.

[AC]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Can anyone point me in a direction to find the top 20 or so ufa defenceman this year?

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/f...ll/defense/ufa

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Who needs data to help give a perspective...the GM talked up one of his trades as the reason why the team performed well! He's obviously unbiased!

Where did anyone say that stats don't provide perspective or have use? There are people employed by the franchises to provide that data / perspective. But it no way is it the be all end all.

The vast majority of people who actually watched the Flames play saw how much Stone seemed to stabilize that second pairing. I don't think Treliving was wrong in that assessment at all.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Can anyone point me in a direction to find the top 20 or so ufa defenceman this year?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=2017+UFA+defensemen+NHL

[IrishSpring2013]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Who needs data to help give a perspective...the GM talked up one of his trades as the reason why the team performed well! He's obviously unbiased!

the data is flawed..

[killer_carlson]

Looking at that list, Vegas got Engellend at a heck of a deal.

[Sylvanfan]

I'm personally not spending anything above 2.5 for another defenceman. Curent top 4 should cover 48 minutes a night. Time to put some dollars up front and not at a Troy Brouwer/Stajan/Bouma type.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Nah. Hamilton is going to be the best D-man on the team for the next five years.

I agree. That's why sending future picks (2018 etc) out the door is a little tough to swallow for me. No doubt they improved the team and I like Hamonic but it seems early to go win now (send out picks and prospects). I could be wrong but they better have a lower pick then 16th OA next year (with the presumed talent).

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I agree. That's why sending future picks (2018 etc) out the door is a little tough to swallow for me. No doubt they improved the team and I like Hamonic but it seems early to go win now (send out picks and prospects). I could be wrong but they better have a lower pick then 16th OA next year (with the presumed talent).

Just out of curiosity, if not now then when would it be a good time to jump into win now mode? We've been rebuilding for about five years since around 2012/13, we've made the playoffs twice, and have really only faltered because of goaltending.

Now we've traded for what we perceive to be a number one goalie (I know you could argue we did that last season, too), we've pretty much got all the stars we're getting from draft picks and will now be making the playoffs regularly with lower picks. Our prime picks have almost all started or are in their primes.

What would you wait for at this point to start making Hamonic type moves to become a contender? I'm guessing your contention may lie more with the fact that we spent those kinds of picks at any point, as it's hard to argue we should continue waiting and wasting Gaudreau's time with the organization to maybe go for it later.

[bigrangy]

I'd like to see Adam Clendening as a potential #6. He's always had the talent and just started to put it together finally at 24 and yet the Rangers didn't qualify him.

I think he could be a real solid pickup for the bottom pair.