I'm not an advanced stats guy but if someone wants to post the stats of those d-men with and without Brodie, I bet they all did better away from him. He had a bad year, let's not pretend he was being dragged down by anyone.
Nashville is living proof why you build out from your blue line.
I am glad the flames appear to be taking that approach.
As I pointed out elsewhere, Nashville lost to a team with a patchwork defense but a collection of fast, skilled forwards.
I don't mind this trade in a bubble that just looks at price for player, or just wants to drool over our D line-up (which is undoubtedly drool-worthy now), but outside of that bubble, I see Treliving spending some very valuable assets to add a 4th top-tier defenseman while the team continues to have zero top 6 right wingers in the league or even in the cupboard.
Given the depth of D prospects Calgary has, I'm not sold that this deal is wise overall. Hopefully I'll feel different before camp opens,when Tre has finished his off-season work
Last edited by Mike F; 06-24-2017 at 01:58 PM.
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I'm not an advanced stats guy but if someone wants to post the stats of those d-men with and without Brodie, I bet they all did better away from him. He had a bad year, let's not pretend he was being dragged down by anyone.
So you're saying that wideman was dragged down by brodie?
Given the depth of D prospects Calgary has, I'm not sold that this deal is wise overall.
You have to take into account the dynamic of the pairings.
With the loss of Engelland we became butter soft on the backend. We have a great top 3 but no one with a mean streak and shut-down ability is pretty much limited to Gio for the most part.
I think you're under-valuing the role Hamonic is going to play and how it will solidify the top four for several seasons to come - and the premium the friendly cap hit plays.
That sturdiness isn't something that can be counted on from our prospects as poise and maturity takes years of experience.
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You have to take into account the dynamic of the pairings.
With the loss of Engelland we became butter soft on the backend. We have a great top 3 but no one with a mean streak and shut-down ability is pretty much limited to Gio for the most part.
I think you're under-valuing the role Hamonic is going to play and how it will solidify the top four for several seasons to come - and the premium the friendly cap hit plays.
That sturdiness isn't something that can be counted on from our prospects as poise and maturity takes years of experience.
I think your ignoring my point, which was: I really like the deal when just looking at the defense, but there's a much more gaping hope at forward and now significantly fewer assets to address it.
As I pointed out elsewhere, Nashville lost to a team with a patchwork defense but a collection of fast, skilled forwards.
I don't mind this trade in a bubble that just looks at price for player, or just wants to drool over our D line-up (which is undoubtedly drool-worthy now), but outside of that bubble, I see Treliving spending some very valuable assets to add a 4th top-tier defenseman while the team continues to have zero top 6 right wingers in the league or even in the cupboard.
Given the depth of D prospects Calgary has, I'm not sold that this deal is wise overall. Hopefully I'll feel different before camp opens,when Tre has finished his off-season work
They have two premium left wingers. They have a rock solid #2RW. They need one guy to come in and fit with Johnny and Sean.
As I pointed out elsewhere, Nashville lost to a team with a patchwork defense but a collection of fast, skilled forwards.
I don't mind this trade in a bubble that just looks at price for player, or just wants to drool over our D line-up (which is undoubtedly drool-worthy now), but outside of that bubble, I see Treliving spending some very valuable assets to add a 4th top-tier defenseman while the team continues to have zero top 6 right wingers in the league or even in the cupboard.
Given the depth of D prospects Calgary has, I'm not sold that this deal is wise overall. Hopefully I'll feel different before camp opens,when Tre has finished his off-season work
And yet the Flames have been flirting with the top third of the league in goals for, despite that hole. Don't see much issue with the offence when it comes to the numbers. The team scores enough goals to win, but doesn't keep out enough of them to consistently. I do think a good RW is much needed (that isn't Ferland), but even the Penguins have had some top six wingers that probably wouldn't have become so in other organizations. Elite centers can compensate for a lot, which we are well aware of.
As much as offence is a popular pick for people because our young guys aren't recognized as 'star names' yet, our true problem in this rebuild so far has been goals allowed. A solid stay at home guy with a physical presence is a big piece towards improving that.
Sometimes I think fans are way to obsessed with draft picks, and because the draft is more hockey poolesque they would rather have the team in rebuild forever.
But at the end of the day Harmonic is a 26 year old high level middle pairing guy who in injury situations has shown that he can play that 20 minute + a night shift chart. At the same time he's signed for 3 years at 3.8 which is amazingly helpful in terms of cap hit in your middle pairing. Edmonton just signed what is really a bottom pairing guy for 4.1.
Draft choices give you a chance and its a down the road chance. While the Flames are young, the Flames have just declared that they're opening their window now to win.
This trade is about what your going to pay for a player with all of the factors that Harmonic brings, age, ability, cap hit.
The added bonus is he would have filled a real need in Edmonton, but he's here instead.
This is a solid deal.
Yeah its tough giving up a first round pick and a couple of seconds, but at the end of the day the Flames have been stockpiling prospects and organizational depth so they can make a move like this.
If the Flames can get Stone, this is a very effective mobile and strong two way blueline with a good physical element,
This also helps out the goaltending situation, and remember we now have a goalie with elite puck moving skill set.
I think this is a great move.
However if you want to balance things out, we could have Harmonic, or that mystery box that might turn out to be a harmonic, or a Rico Fata.
But keeping your draft picks is not the same as being in rebuild forever. It all boils down to whether you want to develop your own players or pay other teams to do it. It's less risk but far more expensive.
Of course Harmonic makes the Flames and so personally I'm excited to see what they can do. But the draft is not just for rebuilding teams.
And yet the Flames have been flirting with the top third of the league in goals for, despite that hole. Don't see much issue with the offence when it comes to the numbers. The team scores enough goals to win, but doesn't keep out enough of them to consistently.
Last year the Flames were 17th in goals for/game and 14th in goals against/game
Is Hamonic better than a first round pick in a deep draft?
Uhhh yeah. A first round pick outside the top 10 is like a 50% chance of getting an NHLer. Getting a guaranteed top 4 defensemen on a great contract for that is a no brainer. In fact he's worth more than a 1st round pick, which is why he went for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Par
There were other cheap options that would have been just good
Source please.
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LOL @ you thinking you're the best poster on here. Couldn't be further from the truth. Probably the funniest thing I've read on here in the past few days.
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Is Hamonic better than a first round pick in a deep draft? There were other cheap options that would have been just good, the asking price for Hamonic were two 1st round picks and we payed that.
Which cheap options were those? We paid a 1st and two 2nds plus got a 4th back.
Having Hamonic in the fold lessens Stone bargaining position with the Flames. Maybe a front-end loaded three year contract at less than $3M entices him to sign with us. Front-end loading it will make him easier to trade when a prospect steps up over the next year or two.
P.S. I think he will have a better year this upcoming season but is still a 3rd pairing guy.
As I pointed out elsewhere, Nashville lost to a team with a patchwork defense but a collection of fast, skilled forwards.
I don't mind this trade in a bubble that just looks at price for player, or just wants to drool over our D line-up (which is undoubtedly drool-worthy now), but outside of that bubble, I see Treliving spending some very valuable assets to add a 4th top-tier defenseman while the team continues to have zero top 6 right wingers in the league or even in the cupboard.
Given the depth of D prospects Calgary has, I'm not sold that this deal is wise overall. Hopefully I'll feel different before camp opens,when Tre has finished his off-season work
Series could have gone either way...and we are talking about Crosby/Malkin...not exactly forwards you can just go out and get. Penguins are an exception, they were also one shot away from losing to the Sens. (Strong D)
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Hamonic's health is another overlooked element of this trade. Hoping for the best
Not sure what you mean. Are you suggesting because he's had an injury that his health is a worry? If so then pretty much every NHLer is a worry. Worrying about his health is paranoia, nothing we can do to control it. It's a contact game, people get injured. Just because someone has been injured in the past does not mean they will be injured many times again in the future.
With the top 4 set for at least 3 years and a handful of defence prospects ready to make the jump in the next couple years, anyone think they could become trade pieces? I would be choked so see any of them move and I'm not sure if the rest of the league values them as much but that might be part of the solution to the only remaining immediate weakness which is a top 6 RW.
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