[Rumour] UPD: Friedman: Flames discussing 1st, pick, and prospect for Hamonic

[Oling_Roachinen]

With respect to Hamonic and 2 firsts:

16th overalls in recent years:

Jakob Chychrun
Mathew Barzal
Sonny Milano
Nikita Zadorov
Tom Wilson
Joel Armia
Vladimir Tarasenko
Nick Leddy
Joe Colborne
Colton Gillies
Ty Wishart
Alex Bourret
Petteri Nokelainen

Of course losing out on a Tarasenko calibre player would be franchise defining, but the average 16th overall player is Joe Colborne and you're more likely to end up with a bust than an impact player.

At 20th:

Dennis Cholowski
Joel Eriksson-Ek
Nick Schmaltz
Anthony Mantha
Scott Laughton
Connor Murphy
Beau Bennett
Jacob Josefson
Michael Del Zotto
Angelo Esposito
David Fischer
Kenndal McArdle
Travis Zajac

With the jury still out on Eriksson-Ek, you'd have to go back to 2004 before you find a player in Zajac that might cause some hesitation in trading for Hamonic.

Not to mention that pretty much regardless of how good the draft pick ends up being at this stage, outside of Chychrun, you're pretty much not going to end up with a player who will help out in the next 3 or 4 years. Giordano will be 37 by then, Tkachuk and Bennett will be on their long term contracts. Backlund and Brodie, if they are here, will be on the wrong side of 30. Brodie (if he gets back to his former-self) will also be on a much higher contract.

The best window for the Flames is within the next maybe 3 or 4 years. Hamonic is perfect for that window. A couple long-shot picks, meh, I'd have no issue if Treliving did deal 2 firsts. This isn't the Kessel trade, one pick has already been established at 16th and there's very likely no shot (especially with Hamonic) that the other pick ends up a top 5. Lottery protect it if you can.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Why are you more concerned about improving 5 years from now than now?

I think having a steady stream of young talent coming up through the ranks is one of the keys to oganizarional depth and strength.

Furthermore, I think we can re-sign Stone and bring in some help for the third pair via free agency and the AHL.

[Toonage]

They can still add young talent outside the draft.
Also I think Stone is coming back regardless.

[the_only_turek_fan]

There any US college defence they can add?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Monahan is a nice player but as has been said in this thread he's no Crosby or Malkin and Conner Sheary scored 23 goals/53 points and happens to be the exact same age as Ferland. I know you love to bring up that Ferland got off to a late start to his career but that doesn't really matter in a sport where peak performance is tied to physical age regardless of if you started paying at 6 years old or 14 years old. Even if he progresses to say 20 goals and 35 points (being realistic not pie in the sky) that's not ideal production for a first line winger. Flames have five years left with Gaudreau on the roster and it would be a shame to waste those years with makeshift line mates.

Some people are too hung on "1st line RW". It's a fixation that shows a misunderstanding of how teams stack their forward lineups in today's NHL.

The NHL doesn't work like that these days. PIT's most dangerous winger doesn't play on their 1st line (Kessel). You keep bringing up PIT but you keep ignoring the fact they don't have 1st line wingers on their first line either. The best teams often spread their talent among 3 lines and don't stack one line with the best talent. It's often effective because two skilled players often are most successful with a smart complimentary player as the 3rd player on that line. 2 skilled guys often need a player who does the dirty work and grinds the boards, stands in front of the net and screens the goalie.

Ferland isn't our most skilled winger. Instead of looking at the first line RW spot in isolation you need to look at our top 3 lines and how they are balanced. Instead of asking if we have a 1st line RW we should be asking if we have at least three 1st line players.

Gaudreau is a 1st line player. Monahan is a 1st line player. Backlund had borderline 1st line production. Tkachuk likely will be a 1st line player. Bennett may still end up a 1st line player. Flames have the skill to compete long term. For us it's concentrated more at C and LW. That's not a problem, its just how the team is constructed. For us the complimentary forwards are the RWers. That's not a problem. That doesn't prevent us from being a contender.

This insistence that the #1 RW needs to be a highly skilled player in order for us to compete is a myth.

If you really want a 1st line player on our #1 RW then just move Tkachuk there. Problem solved.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Toonage

They can still add young talent outside the draft.
Also I think Stone is coming back regardless.

Yep, every thread about a college UFA has been littered with people crying about them ending up in Chicago somehow.

Chicago's success is the number one reason for that. Get some success, and it's easier to attract outside talent.

I believe the Flames do have a decent young core, and the right vet, to get something done soon especially if they can address those needs, RW, solid goalie, and a legit top 4. Hamonic, especially with his low contract, would be a great start.

[Toonage]

Re: 1RW - Pittsburgh is an odd example of that (in a good way) where the less a winger knows or the little experience they have is a plus as Crosby gets to mold them as he sees fit.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I think having a steady stream of young talent coming up through the ranks is one of the keys to oganizarional depth and strength.

So do I. But we've already built the majority of the depth needed. The players likely to be coming up in the next few years have already been drafted. We've picked a lot in the past 4 years. There is a steady stream already built and trading one 1st rounder won't change that or sabotage it. The cupboards aren't bare.

You guys know that I love drafting, accumulating prospects and picks. But at some point you've got to pivot and acquire key guys in the right age range to supplement what you've already built and plug those last 1 or 2 holes. I think we may be at that point.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

So do I. But we've already built the majority of the depth needed. The players likely to be coming up in the next few years have already been drafted. We've picked a lot in the past 4 years. There is a steady stream already built and trading one 1st rounder won't change that or sabotage it. The cupboards aren't bare.

I agree. The loss of the 1st rounder is one thing that shouldn't be a major kick in the junk. Unfortunately, the Flames have no 2nd or 3rd rounder in this draft, and no 2nd or 3rd rounder in 2018 (and possibly no 5th rounder if Stone is resigned). The first three rounds are normally where you make hay. Anything beyond that is considered a surprise. So the Flames would have lost four of six picks in the this year and next. That seems like a pretty substantial hole you need to fill. I don't mind losing a pick or two, but two thirds of your top picks in a two year span is Sutteresque and why we went through such a dark period after his firing. I'd be very careful in making that deal, especially when you are only getting a guy for three years.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Monahan is a nice player but as has been said in this thread he's no Crosby or Malkin and Conner Sheary scored 23 goals/53 points and happens to be the exact same age as Ferland. I know you love to bring up that Ferland got off to a late start to his career but that doesn't really matter in a sport where peak performance is tied to physical age regardless of if you started paying at 6 years old or 14 years old. Even if he progresses to say 20 goals and 35 points (being realistic not pie in the sky) that's not ideal production for a first line winger. Flames have five years left with Gaudreau on the roster and it would be a shame to waste those years with makeshift line mates.

If Ferland scores 20 goals and 35 points AND continues to beat everyone up, I'll take that over Sheary everyday. I think the physical element is what some fans are missing about Ferland, there's a lot of value there and for the Flames that value went up 10 fold with the loss of Engelland. I guarantee there's lots of interest in Ferland from other teams. I'd be shocked if Tre traded him and more shocked if Burke allowed it.

[sureLoss]

Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Garth Snow and Brad Treliving having a quick chat on the Draft floor. One of many with Hamonic as primary topic to be sure.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Garth Snow and Brad Treliving having a quick chat on the Draft floor. One of many with Hamonic as primary topic to be sure.

I'm a little scared

[TheScorpion]

Come on, Brad. Do it!

[Bar-Down]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Garth Snow and Brad Treliving having a quick chat on the Draft floor. One of many with Hamonic as primary topic to be sure.

I have a feeling the trade is agreed upon in principle, it is just pending who could possibly be available at #16.

Let's hope it's something like one 1st + B Prospect. #wizardry

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

I'm a little scared

[Gallick]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

There any US college defence they can add?

How's Kenney Morrison doing?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

That's what the Flames have been doing since 2013 when they decided to rebuild finally.

Picked 11 times in the 1st two rounds of the last 4 drafts. That's +3 for those two rounds and that doesn't include the 1st and two 2nds we dealt to get a 21 year old Dougie Hamilton.

We also had 9 picks in last years draft, which is more than we've had in any draft since 2004 when they still had 9 rounds. Flames also had one of the youngest teams in the AHL, if not the youngest, and they made the playoffs despite being in a division filled with veteran laden teams.

I hope we pick at #16 too, because it's fun. But if Tre can get a player that helps take the team to the next level, and will be a part of it for a while then I'm all for it.

I would argue the question isn't so much how many times we have picked in the first 2 rounds, but what does the quality of our prospect base look like? Poirier and Klimchuk don't hold first round value anymore.

I don't disagree you look at every trade. But if it costs 2 firsts to get a #4 D, that would be zero picks in the first 3 rounds this year, and presumably zero picks in first two rounds next year.

That is quite a deficit in a league where contending teams seem to have young players emerge and make an impact. To do that, you'd have to feel rather strongly you have the makings of a Stanley Cup team in your organization right now. I'm not sure Flames are there so I'd like to see us keep the picks unless the deal is for elite talent.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Gallick

How's Kenney Morrison doing?

Not great. I wonder how Josh Healey is looking

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

I'm a little scared

Yeah, I really am not a fan of spending draft picks for harmonic. Even though the Flames are getting to a point where you need to get some solid now players. You can't skip stocking the cupboards. As far as I am concerned. Treliving has spent this and last year's picks wisely with Elliott. Smith. Stone and Lazar. Any more and you're entering Sitter territory of poor asset management. Harmonic is not worth the cost. Plain and simple.

[StrykerSteve]

Thread title change, oh shi-