Treliving needs to nail down a tough guy...

[Demetric]

noooooooo

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If the issue is getting pushed around, then the Flames need a better powerplay.

Seriously, three of the four teams in the semi-finals weren't tough teams at all. Look at the rosters of the Pens, Preds, and Senators and tell me they're tougher than the Flames.

The game has changed. Do players need to have jam? Yes. Do you need guys wiling to go to the dirty areas and make plays? Yes. Do you need to have guys who will exact retribution by chucking knuckles? Nope.

Hey I'm all for picking up Crosby, Malkin, Subban, Karlsson or anyone else who can give the Flames an elite powerplay over a guy like Kassian or Maroon. Sign me up.

[Savvy27]

I would prefer the Flames focus on getting faster before they worry about getting tougher. Flames fans are making Lucic and Kassian into bogeymen... Kassian for God's sake! What is happening to you guys!?

Team toughness is fine. If anything, the Flames focused too much on the rough stuff against Anaheim. I would like to see them pick up Del Zotto, who is surprisingly physical and an excellent skater. Having Smith in net should cut down on the punishment our D face on the forecheck too.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Par

The Flames to do list has just gone up, they needed a top RW to play on the top line, a top 6 forward, a top 4 D man, a starting goalie(still a ?) and now toughness, this team has more holes than Swiss cheese.

It doesn't matter if you're a good team or a bad team, you always try to improve the team. So unless you want the team to just sit on it's hands and get left in the dust by other teams, you address certain aspects of the team.

Besides, you purposely inflated the number of needs to make your point. The top 6F and top line RW is the same thing. They also have what they perceive is their starting goalie. So your 4 points is only really 2.

So a more realistic point would be Flames need to sign a top 4 dman, and get tougher. Seems pretty do-able to me.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by 868904

For those who say you don't need toughness, just look at the Oilers. They turned it around after bringing in Maroon, Kassian, Lucic and Nurse. These guys allowed McDavid and Draisatl to play their game...

Mmm. No. The Oilers turned it around with a full season from McDavid, a Vezina calibre season and +70 games from their starting goalie, and the addition of a competent NHL defenseman.

[united]

Wasting roster spots on tough guys for the sake of being tough isn't useful. Ideally you can get a couple players who are tough and good, but they are hard to get for the very reason of them being rare commodities.

Radko Gudas' name has come up a few times in the past three or four months - he is a terrific example of a guy who is not only a sure thing top-four defenceman, but also one who is extremely tough and physical, to the point of being dirty. The asking price is probably too high, but I would love him on the Flames. He's also a right-handed shot which is another bonus.

Another Flyer, Wayne Simmonds, would also be great but is basically untouchable.

Josh Manson is another example, but there is next to no chance he's available for anything but an extreme overpay. The Ducks are sure lucky to have him.

Brandon Dubinsky isn't a heavy, but he's a physical player who isn't afraid to drop them and loves irritating other teams' star players.

A few examples, but the point remains: players who are tough and skilled are probably the rarest commodity in hockey right now.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Hey I'm all for picking up Crosby, Malkin, Subban, Karlsson or anyone else who can give the Flames an elite powerplay over a guy like Kassian or Maroon. Sign me up.

Flames pp was elite in playoffs, goaltending was far from it. I expect it was top 10 second half of season as well.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by 868904

For those who say you don't need toughness, just look at the Oilers. They turned it around after bringing in Maroon, Kassian, Lucic and Nurse. These guys allowed McDavid and Draisatl to play their game.

The Pens and Hawks don't have a guy now but when their star guys were younger, they did have them. Bollig and Eager was there for the Hawks and the Pens had Engelland.

Never mind the fact that the Flames core is no where near as good as the Hawks or Pens core.

Laughable that you are stating the Oilers turned it around by bringing in Maroon, Kassian, Lucic, and Nurse. It has nothing to do with the 20 year old Art Ross and Hart trophy winner not the goalie that played 70+ games putting up great numbers. It also couldn't be the fact they added 3 Dmen to their top 4 with Klefbom returning from injury, signing Russell and trading for Larson.

It was the goons that turned it around

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Mmm. No. The Oilers turned it around with a full season from McDavid, a Vezina calibre season and +70 games from their starting goalie, and the addition of a competent NHL defenseman.

Yeah, but it can be a combination of things. A Hart trophy winner, a good goalie and not being a team of a bunch of wimps all contributed to their not winning the lottery again.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Flames pp was elite in playoffs, goaltending was far from it. I expect it was top 10 second half of season as well.

11th since mid-January.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeah, but it can be a combination of things. A Hart trophy winner, a good goalie and not being a team of a bunch of wimps all contributed to their not winning the lottery again.

But not all factors are equal. Without the addition of Larsson it would not have mattered a lick how "tough" the Oilers were last year. I don't believe for a second that the same can be said with a reduction of "toughness"—whatever that is.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Laughable that you are stating the Oilers turned it around by bringing in Maroon, Kassian, Lucic, and Nurse. It has nothing to do with the 20 year old Art Ross and Hart trophy winner not the goalie that played 70+ games putting up great numbers. It also couldn't be the fact they added 3 Dmen to their top 4 with Klefbom returning from injury, signing Russell and trading for Larson.

It was the goons that turned it around

What goons do the Oilers have?

I wonder if McDavid has a little more courage than he would with Hall, Yakupov, and Nugent-Hopkins sitting around him.

[Kipper_3434]

Nope. What did Engelland do to deter people from slashing gaudreau?

[DJones]

I thought Stajan and Backlund both carried themselves well last year.

Didn't give an inch to bigger players.

I prefer speed and skill over size. If they have all three that's great.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeah, but it can be a combination of things. A Hart trophy winner, a good goalie and not being a team of a bunch of wimps all contributed to their not winning the lottery again.

One of those things is not like the other haha.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But not all factors are equal. Without the addition of Larsson it would not have mattered a lick how "tough" the Oilers were last year. I don't believe for a second that the same can be said with a reduction of "toughness"—whatever that is.

Well yeah, of course not all factors are equal. It was a bingo ball that changed everything for the Oilers, but there are other factors.

As for '"toughness"—whatever that is", it's, umm, toughness. It's a real thing in the sport.

The goonery and staged fights and all that are gone and good for that, but a bunch of teenagers will be drafted on Friday and their "toughness" will be a consideration of everyone looking at them.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by devo22

People need to stop acting like this is a butter-soft team.

11:39 PIM/game (1st in the NHL)
323 minor penalties (1st in the NHL)
36 major penalties (4th in the NHL)
5 game misconducts (1st in the NHL)

This isn't the 90s. Pittsburgh were 29th in major penalties.

Penalties have nothing to do with toughness. Flames moved amazingly from one of the least penalized to the most penalized because of unprofessional action from the refs. They aren't instigating anything and almost entirely their actions are out of frustration. They can't play a physical game. Not a goon game but a physical one. The Ducks pushed them around Not because they can outfight them but they are bigger and tougher.

The goon argument and the old days hockey argument are so lame. There are different ways to win a hockey game. When your goalie can't see the puck, when you are pinned in your own zone, when you lose on one board battles this is a team beating you physically. These situations are also when the Flames take penalties often as they can't control the play physically. So there isn't goons anymore there are still big players running around taking advantage of their size. Plus against weak teams with mediocre powerplays there is no reason that they can't go over the line in that physical play as well.

The Flames are a small weak team who so far this offseason got even weaker.

They need some counter to teams that play physical.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

Penalties have nothing to do with toughness. Flames moved amazingly from one of the least penalized to the most penalized because of unprofessional action from the refs. They aren't instigating anything and almost entirely their actions are out of frustration. They can't play a physical game. Not a goon game but a physical one. The Ducks pushed them around Not because they can outfight them but they are bigger and tougher...

In the playoffs? If they did, then I don't think this had a significant impact on the series. The Flames skated circles around the Ducks through most of those four games and were ultimately let down by a poor goaltending performance and a few instances of very poor decision-making. I disagree that the Ducks "pushed them around."

[ComixZone]

I just don't understand why everyone thinks we're a small weak team.

We weren't manhandled last year. If you truly think so, then provide some real examples where we were "beat up" and it cost us the game.

I just don't see it. We were pushed around by the Ducks in the playoffs a few years ago, but we weren't this year.

[Tinordi]

Ugh, the last thing this team needs is a designated tough guy. We need players who can play hockey. I keep coming back to the Anaheim sweep. Did they sweep us because they had more tough guys? No. They swept us because they had line after line of depth and their bottom half of the roster absolutely murdered our bottom half. Adding "toughness" would just make that problem worse.