2017 NHL Draft

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by Hockey

Where does a player like Gaudreau go in this draft if it was his draft year this year? Is he still a 3-4th rounder or go in the 1st?

Someone good to compare might be Zach Solow. He put up 69 points in 56 games for Dubuque, though he was a late birthday. Compare that to Johnny and his 72 points in 60 games and his younger birthday.

I would say that a player with Gaudreau's draft year should end up less than 30 spots ahead of someone like Solow's. Most mocks have Solow going somewhere in the 4th so I bet a draft eligible Gaudreau would go anywhere in the 3rd. You do have to also remember that Gaudreau was 5'6"' 140 on draft day, the smallest guy ever drafted. 4th round was honestly probably too high for him at the time, though he's obviously proved the first 103 wrong so far.

[N26]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

...

If I had to guess how the picks from to Calgary would go

1 - NJ - Hischier
2 - PHI - Patrick
3 - DAL - Makar/Heiskanen
4 - COL - Glass
5 - VAN - Pettersson
6 - VGK - Makar/Heiskanen
7 - ARI - Necas
8 - BUF - Vilardi
9 - DET - Andersson
10 - FLA - Middlestadt
11 - LA - Kostin
12 - CAR - Tippett
13 - WPG - Foote
14 - TB - Tolvanen
15 - NYI - Suzuki
16 - CGY - Liljegren

Liljegren is certainly one of the pre-draft favourites to be a faller and I get the reasons why.

However if he is still available at 16 I don't see any reason for us to be in on him. Almost every profile I read makes me think 'Oliver Kylington II'. Size, skillset, skating, hockey IQ, difficult draft year, same question marks and on and on. Everything really, right down to his nationality.

We've got Kylington I and it may work out very well. We don't need the sequel.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by N26

Liljegren is certainly one of the pre-draft favourites to be a faller and I get the reasons why.

However if he is still available at 16 I don't see any reason for us to be in on him. Almost every profile I read makes me think 'Oliver Kylington II'. Size, skillset, skating, hockey IQ, difficult draft year, same question marks and on and on. Everything really, right down to his nationality.

We've got Kylington I and it may work out very well. We don't need the sequel.

Liljegren has some similarities to Kylington but

1) He is consistemtly ranked higher than Kylington was, so the risk may be lower. Liljegren is still seen as a top ten prospect, Kylington was seen as a 15-20 pick.
2) He plays more of a physical game like Letang, Giordano, and Doughty. Kylington is pure finesse.
3) Shoots right, which means his only systemic competition for a spot is Andersson (and Fox, who has his own flaws). Top 4 RHD are highly valued in trade... If Liljegren and Andersson (or Fox) pan out, you could get a hefty return, helping fill any future positional need. I believe Liljegren will likely be the best pick we can make at 16 with his upside. You don't let Kylington or Andersson change that opinion.
4) Kylington is no sure thing himself. Having more bullets in the chamber is never a bad idea. And even if he were a sure thing, that's not exactly a strong argument against Liljegren... if you could draft Gaudreau 2.0 wouldn't you jump on it?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Liljegren has some similarities to Kylington but

1) He is consistemtly ranked higher than Kylington was, so the risk may be lower. Liljegren is still seen as a top ten prospect, Kylington was seen as a 15-20 pick.
2) He plays more of a physical game like Letang, Giordano, and Doughty. Kylington is pure finesse.
3) Shoots right, which means his only systemic competition for a spot is Andersson (and Fox, who has his own flaws). Top 4 RHD are highly valued in trade... If Liljegren and Andersson (or Fox) pan out, you could get a hefty return, helping fill any future positional need. I believe Liljegren will likely be the best pick we can make at 16 with his upside. You don't let Kylington or Andersson change that opinion.
4) Kylington is no sure thing himself. Having more bullets in the chamber is never a bad idea. And even if he were a sure thing, that's not exactly a strong argument against Liljegren... if you could draft Gaudreau 2.0 wouldn't you jump on it?

Plus the kid had mono this season.

Ask anyone who's had it, it kicks the snot out of you.

IMO if Liljegren is still on the board at 16 Treliving should cartwheel all the way up to the podium before calling his name.

[bigrangy]

The thing it comes down to me for Liljegren is whether his mono played a big part in his underwhelming year or whether he isn't quite as smart as a talented defenseman needs to be to succeed. A better scout than me would have to determine that but if you think 15-16 Liljegren is more representative of the finished product than 16-17 Liljegren would be then you should have no problems taking him at 5 or 6, let alone 16.

[N26]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Liljegren has some similarities to Kylington but

1) He is consistemtly ranked higher than Kylington was, so the risk may be lower. Liljegren is still seen as a top ten prospect, Kylington was seen as a 15-20 pick.
2) He plays more of a physical game like Letang, Giordano, and Doughty. Kylington is pure finesse.
3) Shoots right, which means his only systemic competition for a spot is Andersson (and Fox, who has his own flaws). Top 4 RHD are highly valued in trade... If Liljegren and Andersson (or Fox) pan out, you could get a hefty return, helping fill any future positional need. I believe Liljegren will likely be the best pick we can make at 16 with his upside. You don't let Kylington or Andersson change that opinion.
4) Kylington is no sure thing himself. Having more bullets in the chamber is never a bad idea. And even if he were a sure thing, that's not exactly a strong argument against Liljegren... if you could draft Gaudreau 2.0 wouldn't you jump on it?

Some good points here but based on the picks that Caged Great made if we were in that position I would take Vesalainen or another faller, Rasmussen myself.

Out of interest what are Fox's flaws? Never seen him play so I have no idea. The reviews of his past season range from glowing to epic. Size I suppose.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by N26

Some good points here but based on the picks that Caged Great made if we were in that position I would take Vesalainen or another faller, Rasmussen myself.

Out of interest what are Fox's flaws? Never seen him play so I have no idea. The reviews of his past season range from glowing to epic. Size I suppose.

The knocks on Fox are his size, skating and his defensive game.

Size is what it is. All he can do is bulk up some.

The other two he can improve on.

His offensive instincts are elite though.

[N26]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The knocks on Fox are his size, skating and his defensive game.

Size is what it is. All he can do is bulk up some.

The other two he can improve on.

His offensive instincts are elite though.

Elite Prospects lists him as 5'10 - 187. If that is accurate I'm not too worried about his size. Everybody wants an Eric Karlsson these days and he's gonna be ours maybe. Brannstrom is getting a lot of pick 15-25 buzz this year and he's smaller than that.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Someone good to compare might be Zach Solow. He put up 69 points in 56 games for Dubuque, though he was a late birthday. Compare that to Johnny and his 72 points in 60 games and his younger birthday.

I would say that a player with Gaudreau's draft year should end up less than 30 spots ahead of someone like Solow's. Most mocks have Solow going somewhere in the 4th so I bet a draft eligible Gaudreau would go anywhere in the 3rd. You do have to also remember that Gaudreau was 5'6"' 140 on draft day, the smallest guy ever drafted. 4th round was honestly probably too high for him at the time, though he's obviously proved the first 103 wrong so far.

Great, now I want the Flames to draft Zach Solow, and I'm bound to be disappointed.

As for Timothy Liljegren, there seems to be a lack of consensus on his skills and flaws.
On today's Pinder hour, there was a guest who claimed that Liljegren lacked hockey IQ, defensive capabilities, and a strong shot. However this same guest also predicted that New Jersey would pick a defenseman.

But I've also heard the complete opposite. Liljegren apparently finished 2nd in his league in shots. I've also heard that he has a good hockey IQ.

Most seem to agree that he's a strong skater and puck mover. It will be interesting to see where he goes.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by N26

Some good points here but based on the picks that Caged Great made if we were in that position I would take Vesalainen or another faller, Rasmussen myself.

Out of interest what are Fox's flaws? Never seen him play so I have no idea. The reviews of his past season range from glowing to epic. Size I suppose.

Rasmussen looks like another Joe Colborne type, limited secondary guy that people hope might be good because he's huge.

I'd go with Vesalainen if I had to pick between them, but I wouldn't exactly be thrilled with either. I'd rather the Flames trade down a few spots and take Robert Thomas instead if all things were equal.

Fox is small and not great defensively. That's pretty much the knock on him.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Rasmussen looks like another Joe Colborne type, limited secondary guy that people hope might be good because he's huge.

I'd go with Vesalainen if I had to pick between them, but I wouldn't exactly be thrilled with either. I'd rather the Flames trade down a few spots and take Robert Thomas instead if all things were equal.

Fox is small and not great defensively. That's pretty much the knock on him.

Yeah but you also thought Makar was a forward, so.....

I kid.

What are your thoughts on Kole Lind CG?

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah but you also thought Makar was a forward, so.....

I kid.

What are your thoughts on Kole Lind CG?

I'm awake now. Makes things only slightly better.

Lind would be fine if we had a mid second round pick and he was available.

I've watched him and Dube together and Lind is not on the same level as him. He's a decent prospect in his own right, but it's one of those problems where the Flames aren't really in a good spot in the draft where it makes sense to take him. If the Flames were picking at 22-25, then sure he'd be a decent candidate along with a small handful of other guys.

If the Flames traded down and got something important for doing so and selected Lind, that would be fine as long as one of the good prospects wasn't available at 16.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Rasmussen looks like another Joe Colborne type, limited secondary guy that people hope might be good because he's huge.

I'd go with Vesalainen if I had to pick between them, but I wouldn't exactly be thrilled with either. I'd rather the Flames trade down a few spots and take Robert Thomas instead if all things were equal.

Fox is small and not great defensively. That's pretty much the knock on him.

Maybe the next Hugh Jessiman (aka Huge Speciman) who was a total bust. We better run the other way if he's available.

[Sandman]

I think I'm a much bigger fan of Kole Lind than CG, but I agree that he shouldn't go until the mid-twenties-there's shinier guys available....

[868904]

When I watch highlights of Lljegrin, I'm always drawn to Brannstrom.

I don't see much in Lljegrin, but Brannstrom is dynamic and has high hockey IQ.

Brannstrom may be small but he is so quick and smart, which makes him very elusive.

If the Flames want a skilled defenceman from Sweden, I'd rather they trade down draft Brannstrom and pick up a second rounder.

[schooner]

Kole Lind is an interesting one. As always I will preface this by saying I am terrible at scouting players.

Living in Kelowna I watched him quite a bit this year. He had a great year. So I should like him. I guess when I am watching junior I want to see someone really standout to be confident that they will take it to the next level. Call it that game breaker ability. I didnt see it. I see him as a mid 2nd rather than a 1st rounder.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by schooner

Kole Lind is an interesting one. As always I will preface this by saying I am terrible at scouting players.

Living in Kelowna I watched him quite a bit this year. He had a great year. So I should like him. I guess when I am watching junior I want to see someone really standout to be confident that they will take it to the next level. Call it that game breaker ability. I didnt see it. I see him as a mid 2nd rather than a 1st rounder.

In previous drafts, he probably would be a second rounder but I would bet on him going in the first in this years draft....

[Caged Great]

I think if he was available last year, he would have went 5-10 picks after Dube.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I think if he was available last year, he would have went 5-10 picks after Dube.

You could be right, but an argument could be made to the contrary-Lind is bigger, has more PIMs, scored more points (17 more than the next leading scorer on the team, though there were many injuries), and put up a better playoff performance in his draft year than Dube. There were a few that questioned Dube's hockey sense as well.

Please don't get me wrong-I think Dube was a great pick-up, and our scouts got it right, and I don't necessarily think that Lind will be a better NHLer.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Great, now I want the Flames to draft Zach Solow, and I'm bound to be disappointed.

As for Timothy Liljegren, there seems to be a lack of consensus on his skills and flaws.
On today's Pinder hour, there was a guest who claimed that Liljegren lacked hockey IQ, defensive capabilities, and a strong shot. However this same guest also predicted that New Jersey would pick a defenseman.

But I've also heard the complete opposite. Liljegren apparently finished 2nd in his league in shots. I've also heard that he has a good hockey IQ.

Most seem to agree that he's a strong skater and puck mover. It will be interesting to see where he goes.

That guy also couldn't pronounce Gaudreau and didn't know Calgary had already traded Granlund away. I don't put much stock in what he had to say.