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View Poll Results: Do you feel not using public funds is worth the Flames moving?
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Yes
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180 |
32.26% |
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No
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378 |
67.74% |
06-13-2017, 04:47 PM
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#2981
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Retired
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Back in Guelph
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^ That is junk. Don't want that Edmonton deal here.
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The Following User Says Thank You to TheFlamesVan For This Useful Post:
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06-13-2017, 06:26 PM
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#2982
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Brisbane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutuu
I'm sure it's been said before, but the Flames happily sat on the sidelines watching the Oiler's arena debate. Once there was an outcome from that negotiation they would know if the province kicked in funds and have a template to negotiate with the city.
Roger's Place cost $613.7m, including:
1. Arena
2. Wintergarden
3. Pedestrian Corridor
4. LRT connection
5. Community downtown arena
6. Arena land
Katz paid $27.7m upfront, and the city leased him the other $137.8m (@2.8% interest that's $6.23m/yr in payments)
The rest of the arena is funded with a ticket tax and CRL, to which the city of Edmonton fronted the $448.2m remaining.
Edmonton also signed a $2m/yr advertising deal with Katz for 10yrs.
Katz pays all operating costs and receives 100% of revenue from the building.
In the end Katz put 5% down and got a free arena. The Flames led with a proposal to the city similar to this deal and Nenshi said no.
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It is a horrible deal but this is the point that seems ridiculous. Why is the city of Edmonton advertising at an arena in Edmonton? So basically Katz put up $27M upfront but then the city gives him $20M back over 10 years. Crazy!
__________________
The masses of humanity have always had to surf.
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06-13-2017, 07:02 PM
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#2983
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireGilbert
It is a horrible deal but this is the point that seems ridiculous. Why is the city of Edmonton advertising at an arena in Edmonton? So basically Katz put up $27M upfront but then the city gives him $20M back over 10 years. Crazy!
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It gets better. Katz's group Katz-WAM won the bid to house city workers at 101st & 104th ave (less than a block from Rogers Place). Beat out 20 other developers for the anchor lease in 2012. Original arena deal was signed in Oct 2011, with additional funds approved in May 2013. Cost to move workers was $16.4m, with $9.5m paid by Katz group.
https://goo.gl/e7kVKD
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06-13-2017, 07:12 PM
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#2984
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
17 years ago in a completely different cap system (aka none) that may as well be considered a different sports league. Not comparable in the least.
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To add to your point, around the same time the Save the Flames thing was going on, Apple was also in big financial trouble. Pretty sure no one is going to offer them money based on that to build their new home. Times change.
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06-13-2017, 07:18 PM
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#2985
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Brisbane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutuu
It gets better. Katz's group Katz-WAM won the bid to house city workers at 101st & 104th ave (less than a block from Rogers Place). Beat out 20 other developers for the anchor lease in 2012. Original arena deal was signed in Oct 2011, with additional funds approved in May 2013. Cost to move workers was $16.4m, with $9.5m paid by Katz group.
https://goo.gl/e7kVKD |
Wow!
That horrible deal really speaks to the inferiority complex of Edmonton who bought into the threats to move and proposal for a 'world class' facility.
The fact that so many Calgarians are against public funding to the extent of the Edmonton deal proves Calgary has a far more confident and less gullible populace.
__________________
The masses of humanity have always had to surf.
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06-13-2017, 07:52 PM
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#2986
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizaro86
Next Bretton Wilson interview I hope they ask him if he'd move the predators here if the Flames move to Seattle...
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Bridgestone Arena is 21 years old and only seats 17,113. Brett is looking to see cities like Edmonton and Calgary cave in so he has more precedents to reference when the Predators go to Nashville city hall in a few years and say they need a new arena because they can't maximize revenue in a tiny old rink.
He'd probably threaten to move the Predators to Calgary, but then again, he probably wouldn't threaten. He'd just do it. 
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06-13-2017, 08:07 PM
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#2987
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Park Hyatt Tokyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevman
But you could and it wouldn't cost you anything. You paid for it and you have access to it.
Fun thought, if the city footed the bill what if it retained a certain number of seats to use for all events as it sees fit? If there were a block of seats available at no cost for those that otherwise wouldn't get to use the venue I could maybe support a portion being publicly funded. You know, like a library, where anyone is welcome.
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We can call it "Nenshi's Less Fortunate Fan Zone".
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06-13-2017, 08:14 PM
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#2988
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Park Hyatt Tokyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Pepper
KK just said that the design for the Vic Park Arena is "controversially spectacular". They will come out pretty shortly apparently.
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It has piping doesn't it??... I knew it, they're adding piping to the arena!! 
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06-13-2017, 10:18 PM
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#2989
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Franchise Player
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Revenue came up at the session and apparantly calgary will be getting a small amount from the nhl as part of the sharing. King said flames were 16th in revenue last season.
They also mentioned the average ticket price is 6th out of the Canadian teams. Reading between the lines it is obvious tickets prices will go up but they won't gouge like the oilers did.
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06-13-2017, 10:20 PM
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#2990
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbob
Revenue came up at the session and apparantly calgary will be getting a small amount from the nhl as part of the sharing. King said flames were 16th in revenue last season.
They also mentioned the average ticket price is 6th out of the Canadian teams. Reading between the lines it is obvious tickets prices will go up but they won't gouge like the oilers did.
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Well they won't say they will raise prices a bunch.. that's not going to get them a new arena.
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06-13-2017, 10:22 PM
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#2991
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 Posted the 6 millionth post! |
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireGilbert
Wow!
That horrible deal really speaks to the inferiority complex of Edmonton who bought into the threats to move and proposal for a 'world class' facility.
The fact that so many Calgarians are against public funding to the extent of the Edmonton deal proves Calgary has a far more confident and less gullible populace.
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To be fair, I think it's easier to voice resistance against public funding when A) you see a similar deal in an identical city and realize just how bad it looks, and B) when you're three years into a deep recession you might find more resistance to publicly funding anything in general.
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06-13-2017, 10:35 PM
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#2992
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Not a casual user
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbob
Revenue came up at the session and apparantly calgary will be getting a small amount from the nhl as part of the sharing. King said flames were 16th in revenue last season.
They also mentioned the average ticket price is 6th out of the Canadian teams. Reading between the lines it is obvious tickets prices will go up but they won't gouge like the oilers did.
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They gouged us with playoff ticket prices so anything is possible.
__________________
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06-13-2017, 10:39 PM
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#2993
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbob
Revenue came up at the session and apparantly calgary will be getting a small amount from the nhl as part of the sharing. King said flames were 16th in revenue last season.
They also mentioned the average ticket price is 6th out of the Canadian teams. Reading between the lines it is obvious tickets prices will go up but they won't gouge like the oilers did.
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So probably not top ten in income anymore. Maybe the owners paying 100% of the arena doesn't make sense anymore?
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06-13-2017, 10:51 PM
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#2994
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbob
Revenue came up at the session and apparantly calgary will be getting a small amount from the nhl as part of the sharing. King said flames were 16th in revenue last season.
They also mentioned the average ticket price is 6th out of the Canadian teams. Reading between the lines it is obvious tickets prices will go up but they won't gouge like the oilers did.
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ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, breath, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
And they won't make the same arena mistakes as the oilers either. I'm sure they'll make sure all the i's are dotted and the t's crossed before coming forward with a design. They'll never play the move card like the oilers either. The Flames are too classy to do such things.
__________________
The Delhi police have announced the formation of a crack team dedicated to nabbing the elusive 'Monkey Man' and offered a reward for his -- or its -- capture.
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06-13-2017, 11:19 PM
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#2995
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
So probably not top ten in income anymore. Maybe the owners paying 100% of the arena doesn't make sense anymore? |
As soon as they actually let a public auditor verify their numbers then we can talk about public funding...
As of right now, their word on revenue/profit isn't worth anything
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06-14-2017, 06:34 AM
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#2996
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappy
As soon as they actually let a public auditor verify their numbers then we can talk about public funding...
As of right now, their word on revenue/profit isn't worth anything
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I think they offered to show the city. If they are receiving any money from the nhl then it is probably not that far of a leap to say they are not in the top third for revenue generation anymore.
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06-14-2017, 06:41 AM
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#2997
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dion
They gouged us with playoff ticket prices so anything is possible.
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I think that was to help curb the secondary market. I think they mentioned the secondary market is estimated around 10 million.
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06-14-2017, 07:25 AM
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#2998
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Pickle Jar Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Pepper
KK just said that the design for the Vic Park Arena is "controversially spectacular". They will come out pretty shortly apparently.
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I guess this design has been confirmed then
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06-14-2017, 07:38 AM
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#2999
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos
Try this: shut your eyes really tight, raise your hands in front of your face, and cross your fingers.
That's active hope. The longer you do it for, the more effective it is!
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You have to click your heels together three times too.
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06-14-2017, 09:29 AM
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#3000
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireGilbert
It is a horrible deal but this is the point that seems ridiculous. Why is the city of Edmonton advertising at an arena in Edmonton? So basically Katz put up $27M upfront but then the city gives him $20M back over 10 years. Crazy!
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It's those little things hidden in these deals that probably p%$# the most.
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