Ottawa reviewing rules of dual citizenship: Solberg

[jolinar of malkshor]

Ottawa is reviewing the rules governing dual citizenship and whether Canadians living abroad should qualify for social programs when they return, Citizenship and Immigration Minister Monte Solberg confirmed Tuesday

Personally I think it is a good idea. I know some of you don't think so. Having said that, I don't think anything will change....at least not unless the conservatives have a majority.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/...tizenship.html

[Vulcan]

I think it's too bad Canada is being pushed in this direction. I know my family and probably a number of Canadians have dual American- Canadian citizenship but political tides are changing and maybe it's time to choose one or the other.

[mykalberta]

Why is this a bad thing - why sould Canadians forced by mouting taxation be forced to foot the bill for those citizens who more often than not use out country as no more than a place to get a clean passport?

Why should taxes I pay support people who live abroad and then come back for medical support or for a few months?

Please explain why and the anser - because its the Canadian way isnt good enough.

MYK

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Why is this a bad thing - why sould Canadians forced by mouting taxation be forced to foot the bill for those citizens who more often than not use out country as no more than a place to get a clean passport?

Why should taxes I pay support people who live abroad and then come back for medical support or for a few months?

Please explain why and the anser - because its the Canadian way isnt good enough.

MYK

I guess we'd have to see stats on exactly how much these 'inconvenient citizens' are costing Canada. If there are millions of them flooding back here every time they get a sniffle, costing Canada 10's/100's of millions in healthcare costs, then maybe there's something to this. Anyone know exactly what the costs of dual-citizens living abroad is to Canada?

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by fotze

There has to be a better reason than that. The right thing is the right thing no matter the cost. Doing the wrong thing cause it only wastes a smaller amount of money than it should normally waste is not a good justification.

I hear ya, but it sounds like thats exactly what the justification is, they don't pay taxes so they shouldn't be entitled to services at the Canadian government/taxpayers expense. What other reason would there be...?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by fotze

There has to be a better reason than that. The right thing is the right thing no matter the cost. Doing the wrong thing cause it only wastes a smaller amount of money than it should normally waste is not a good justification.

I don't think it is that black and white. And what is right and what is wrong. It really comes down to being actually Canadians. A blue document, IMO, does not make you Canadian. You are Canadian if you live, work and contribute to Canadian Society to better all. Not just when it is convienent for yourself.

I don't have a link but I was watching CBC newsworld and they said that 1.9% of Canadians have dual citizenship. Not sure how many of those are living abroad.

[brownie]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I guess we'd have to see stats on exactly how much these 'inconvenient citizens' are costing Canada. If there are millions of them flooding back here every time they get a sniffle, costing Canada 10's/100's of millions in healthcare costs, then maybe there's something to this. Anyone know exactly what the costs of dual-citizens living abroad is to Canada?

Well it said on the news the other day,it cost 85 million to rescue the so-called Canadians out of Lebanon.Many of whom are already back there.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I don't have a link but I was watching CBC newsworld and they said that 1.9% of Canadians have dual citizenship. Not sure how many of those are living abroad.

From your link above:
According to the latest figures from Statistics Canada, about 557,000 Canadians — 1.8 per cent of the population — are dual citizens.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by fredr123

From your link above:
According to the latest figures from Statistics Canada, about 557,000 Canadians — 1.8 per cent of the population — are dual citizens.

Oh...thanks for finding that for me...haha

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by fredr123

From your link above:
According to the latest figures from Statistics Canada, about 557,000 Canadians — 1.8 per cent of the population — are dual citizens.

For some reason I thought I heard on the radio there were 4 million dual citizens, most of which resided in the other (not Canada) country... maybe I heard wrong, or maybe 557,000 are just the one's residing in Canada? No idea... its just what I recall hearing.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I hear ya, but it sounds like thats exactly what the justification is, they don't pay taxes so they shouldn't be entitled to services at the Canadian government/taxpayers expense. What other reason would there be...?

That's the best reason in the world, I cannot think of anything better than that. Perfectly justifiable.

[fredr123]

In the CBC article quoted above, the critics of Mr. Solberg have a good point, in my opinion. Attacking the idea of dual citizenship, per se, is not a good idea. Allowing people to hold multiple citizenships is a tremendous benefit to individual people and helps open up whole worlds of opportunity.

What might be a more sensible solution would be to look at making consequential amendments to things like the Income Tax Act and various other statutes that deal with social assistance and public health. Make residency a requirement for access to these services. Ensure that people living abroad with Canadian passports are still contributing financially to these programs so that if/when they access them, they have made a contribution.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I hear ya, but it sounds like thats exactly what the justification is, they don't pay taxes so they shouldn't be entitled to services at the Canadian government/taxpayers expense. What other reason would there be...?

I think you also need to add to that permanent residents.

Just because someone donest pay taxes isnt it alone, its the fact that they live abroad and dont pay taxes.

It reminds me of that one fat skank off the plane from Lebanon with her 3 kids who was complaining there were no vegetarian meals left for her - turns out that is the first time she had been back to Canada in 2 years - I just wanted to b!tch slap her back to Lebabon - my tax dollars paid for her child-breeding a$$ to get out of Lebanon and she has the nerve to complain.

MYK

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by fredr123

In the CBC article quoted above, the critics of Mr. Solberg have a good point, in my opinion. Attacking the idea of dual citizenship, per se, is not a good idea. Allowing people to hold multiple citizenships is a tremendous benefit to individual people and helps open up whole worlds of opportunity.

What might be a more sensible solution would be to look at making consequential amendments to things like the Income Tax Act and various other statutes that deal with social assistance and public health. Make residency a requirement for access to these services. Ensure that people living abroad with Canadian passports are still contributing financially to these programs so that if/when they access them, they have made a contribution.

Classic CBC - they make it sound that the Cons want to not allow dual citizens - that is a 100% lie. What they want is to make it more difficult for people from other countries to obtain dual citizenships from Canada. I dont see a problem with that if the person is using the passport solely as a device to make their travel arrangements easier.

How many people that moved here from mainland China do you think are here soley for the passport and not the bettermint of Canadian society? The same goes for other former and current British Commonwealth countries. Australia is enacting similar measures in regards to dual citizenship.

MYK

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Classic CBC - they make it sound that the Cons want to not allow dual citizens - that is a 100% lie.

I didn't get that impression from that article. Although after seeing your reaction I can see how you may have thought that.

I just read that the system should be reviewed.

Personally, I agree that at some point people give up their right to hold a citizenship. I'm not sure how I would draw the line, but the Lebabnon evactuation of people who had lived full time in Lebanon for years and plan to return when the fighting settles down really stuck in my craw. Your Canadian citizenship is not a 'get out of danger free' card.

I think there needs to be some plugging of loop holes and tightening up of some measures, but there is nothing wrong with the idea of dual citizenship.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by fredr123

In the CBC article quoted above, the critics of Mr. Solberg have a good point, in my opinion. Attacking the idea of dual citizenship, per se, is not a good idea. Allowing people to hold multiple citizenships is a tremendous benefit to individual people and helps open up whole worlds of opportunity.

What might be a more sensible solution would be to look at making consequential amendments to things like the Income Tax Act and various other statutes that deal with social assistance and public health. Make residency a requirement for access to these services. Ensure that people living abroad with Canadian passports are still contributing financially to these programs so that if/when they access them, they have made a contribution.

Well...I could live with something like this, however, there are a few problems. How would Canada enforce its tax legislation in foriegn countries. I know they have mutual treaties and agreements, but they will not collect the taxes for the Canadian government. Are you saying that if they do not pay their taxes...they can have their citizenship taken away? Not to mention, a lot of these places do not have a very good tax collecting system and I am sure those governments collect only a portion of the taxes. Not to mention, a lot of those places you can get by on a lot less income than in Canada....so....maybe people can get by on $20,000 CAD.....the foreign government probably only knows about half of that money so...really there would be no income tax collected.

Secondly...the refusal of social services I don;t think would go over very well in Canada. I agree with the idea...but you would never see a hospital turn people away because they didn't pay their taxes. Why not just keep them out to prevent such a situation or make them remain in Canada to contribute to social services?

[Ayrahb]

I don't care much for dual citizenship anyway. My country of birth doesn't allow it, so dual citizenship is out of the question anyway.

If it gets eliminated, I would just say make sure the new law would be applied equitably to ALL countries' citizenships, without exception.

I said something similar before: I think that Canadian citizenship should not be obtained by the virtue of your mother squeezing you out on Canadian soil (even if she had been squeezed out in the same manner). Some aspects/benefits of citizenship should only be granted to people paying/filing taxes (voting, evacuation), passing Canadian history/geography/culture test (passport), and so on.

[nfotiu]

How does one generally become a dual citizen anyway? I am born and raised in Canada, but have been living in the US for 5-6 years. If I eventually became a US citizen, would I be a dual? If I didn't ever bother becoming a US citizen, would I still retain my rights to come back under this proposal? Doesn't anyone who moves back to Canada legally get public health care anyway, I didn't realize citizenship was the deciding factor, I thought it was residency? In fact, I am still a Canadian citizen, but I know for sure that I am not covered by Alberta health care. So what are they talking about??

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Well...I could live with something like this, however, there are a few problems. How would Canada inforce its tax legislation in foriegn countries. I know they have mutual treaties and agreements, but they will not collect the taxes for the Canadian government. Are you saying that if they do not pay their taxes...they can have their citizenship taken away? Not to mention, a lot of these places do not have a very good tax collecting system and I am sure those governments collect only a portion of the taxes. Not to mention, a lot of those places you can get by on a lot less income than in Canada....so....maybe people can get by on $20,000 CAD.....the foreign government probably only knows about half of that money so...really there would be no income tax collected.

Secondly...the refusal of social services I don;t think would go over very well in Canada. I agree with the idea...but you would never see a hospital turn people away because they didn't pay their taxes. Why not just keep them out to prevent such a situation or make them remain in Canada to contribute to social services?

You and I both know the end result will be that nothing changes. As you mentioned, denying any kind of social assistance would cause such a huge backlash here even proposing such a thing isn't really an option. Changes to the Income Tax Act might just create more problems than its worth.

How about a National ID card ()with all your health and tax related information on it? Then, Big Brother Harper could keep tabs on where you are living, how much you owe in taxes and when/where you access the healthcare system or enjoy other Canadian benefits. Guess that doesn't really solve the $ collection problem...

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

How does one generally become a dual citizen anyway? I am born and raised in Canada, but have been living in the US for 5-6 years. If I eventually became a US citizen, would I be a dual? If I didn't ever bother becoming a US citizen, would I still retain my rights to come back under this proposal? Doesn't anyone who moves back to Canada legally get public health care anyway, I didn't realize citizenship was the deciding factor, I thought it was residency? In fact, I am still a Canadian citizen, but I know for sure that I am not covered by Alberta health care. So what are they talking about??

As it stands now....you can only lose your Canadian citizenship if you renounce it, and this has to be done through an official process. Or...if you obtained your citizenship through mis-representation...you may have it revoked.

If you become a US citizen....then yes...you will become dual. The US does not require you to renounce your other citizenship....unless you are applying for a high level government job....such as the Secret Service.

As for healthcare...your right. It is a provincial matter and in Alberta you must be a resident to obtain "free" healthcare. However, you would be hard pressed to be actually charged for services if you showed you were a Canadian. Foreigners on the other hand....if it is minor and they go to a clinic....they will be required to pay before the services are provided. If it is an emergency.....they will provided the services and then bill them later. many times the money is never recovered.