[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

That is how the younger generation are taught to debate, or resist anything today, call them bigots, racists, xenophobes or ultra-right wing because the person they are slandering doesn't agree with them. Harper, Rona Ambrose, Getty, Duerr, Bronconnier et al were none of those things, but because the poster didn't like their politics then they must be bigots or worse.

Bronconier wasn't corrupt?! Hah! The sale of the residential property to his developer buddies at a bargain basement price, then the subsequent approval of the peace bridge landing right at its door is pretty hard to explain away. Then the West LRT shenanigans...

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Bronconier wasn't corrupt?! Hah! The sale of the residential property to his developer buddies at a bargain basement price, then the subsequent approval of the peace bridge landing right at its door is pretty hard to explain away. Then the West LRT shenanigans...

Didn't realize that, thanks for the clarification.

So remove Bronconnier from my list (he was a useless mayor anyway but I at least thought he was honest, just stupid).

[BigFlameDog]

How much is the new sport complex up in the Northwest by the Royal Oak Walmart priced at? I understand the need for the multipurpose complexes but that was looks unnecessarily, over the top fancy. I am not saying they should put that money in the new rink but I wonder about the money for the splashy roof etc. Could that money have been spent elsewhere? It's not like it will be a gathering point for the rest of Calgary.

And I do understand the building is supposed to be cutting edge environmentally. I don't think we need to go cold war era Russia in our buildings but it seems like a lot of extra money is spent on the bells and whistles these days.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

How much is the new sport complex up in the Northwest by the Royal Oak Walmart priced at? I understand the need for the multipurpose complexes but that was looks unnecessarily, over the top fancy. I am not saying they should put that money in the new rink but I wonder about the money for the splashy roof etc. Could that money have been spent elsewhere? It's not like it will be a gathering point for the rest of Calgary.

And I do understand the building is supposed to be cutting edge environmentally. I don't think we need to go cold war era Russia in our buildings but it seems like a lot of extra money is spent on the bells and whistles these days.

$191m.

It's also gigantic, however and serves a couple hundred thousand residents.

Its environmental performance is average - it's more an architectural marvel, than an environmental one.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Didn't realize that, thanks for the clarification.

So remove Bronconnier from my list (he was a useless mayor anyway but I at least thought he was honest, just stupid).

Well don't forget he was also a bigot apparently.

Anyway it's a shameful way to debate and says more about the author in any case. Of course there have been bad leaders but geez...

[Freeway]

Had a good long chat yesterday with Field of Schemes author Neil deMause regarding the ongoing arena saga.

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/06/09/b...-neil-demause/

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Debating this issue with friends has become a real eye opener, I had no idea how many people in my inner circle were racist bigots... I have been following the Calgary Next and Plan B issues closely, with regards to the argument for Calgary Next, I've had 2 people resort to berating the perceived sexual orientation and his race, usually getting his race incorrect. Even when Nenshi has nothing to do with the argument.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Bunk

$191m.

It's also gigantic, however and serves a couple hundred thousand residents.

Its environmental performance is average - it's more an architectural marvel, than an environmental one.

Thanks for that. I am not against beauty, we have a very nice complex out here in Cochrane that looks fine and costs a lot less but without the wow factor. Airdrie and Okotoks have similar, we are small town and have to raise some of the funds which is reflective I suppose.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

Hey Burke, Maybe tell your billionaire owners to effing step up. Please fire this idiot.

Burke is doing exactly what they want him to do.

Where is Betttman in all this? For Phoenix and Pittsburgh, he practically set up his office in those cities to help facilitate deals for arenas. I am guessing that relocation is either so far off right now that Bettman doesn't think it is likely, or he doesn't care.

[pepper24]

If CalgaryNext funding model included $200MM from owners and $250MM from user fees why don't they just go ahead with that model for Plan B?? $450MM should get a new arena in Victoria Park, no??

Or have those values changed without the fieldhouse included (which included $240MM for Community Revitalization Levy (CRL)and $200MM from city for fieldhouse)??

I guess I don't blame them for holding out for public money. Maybe we see a bit less from owners and user fees say $150MM and $200MM respectively then $100MM from city for a CRL when all is said and done.

[Joe Nieuwendyk]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well don't forget he was also a bigot apparently.

Anyway it's a shameful way to debate and says more about the author in any case. Of course there have been bad leaders but geez...

In all fairness, you didn't interpret the post in question accurately - he didn't say that they were all bigots...he said all of them were EITHER incompetent, corrupt OR bigots.

I'm not saying I agree with him but it's a far cry from your assumption that he was saying they were ALL incompetent, corrupt AND bigots.

An important part of debate is listening to the their side.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by pepper24

If CalgaryNext funding model included $200MM from owners and $250MM from user fees why don't they just go ahead with that model for Plan B?? $450MM should get a new arena in Victoria Park, no??

Or have those values changed without the fieldhouse included (which included $240MM for Community Revitalization Levy (CRL)and $200MM from city for fieldhouse)??

I guess I don't blame them for holding out for public money. Maybe we see a bit less from owners and user fees say $150MM and $200MM respectively then $100MM from city for a CRL when all is said and done.

Man.....CalgaryNEXT had a fieldhouse, a CRL, the cleanup of the land....so many more moving pieces.

Thats the thing, in the grand scheme of it, building an arena is child's play.

It was the myriad of all of the extras that boondoggled the hell out of CalgaryNEXT.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Burke is doing exactly what they want him to do.

Flames Upper Management wanted him to act like a complete clown, and insult season ticket holders?

I'm sure they want a united front on the push for a new building. I doubt they are happy about the way Burke went about it.

It was reminiscent of Lowe and the case of the tier one fans.

[Scary Eloranta]

What's the over under on getting a deal done and seeing some renders? Six months? A year? Never?

[Northendzone]

so according to an article in today's herald, diane coley-urquhart says the city and flames are in the "short-strokes of putting a deal together"

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...burkes-threats

so if this is true, would one not think that the head of hockey ops would be cc'd in on the email correspondence, or invited to the meetings that the flames held in their saddledome offices......

regardless of where the city is at, they should just tell the flames one way of the other soon, so the flames can make their plans accordingly

[Freeway]

Why would Burke be at the meetings? He's not involved in the project.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Scary Eloranta

What's the over under on getting a deal done and seeing some renders? Six months? A year? Never?

According to that article in the Herald, it sounds like it'll be a matter of weeks if they want to have a deal in place before the election.

There might not be renderings at that point. Even if there are, they're likely to change before we see shovels in the dirt.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Why would Burke be at the meetings? He's not involved in the project.

but he should at least be in the loop of what's going on instead of embarrassing himself and the organization.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

but he should at least be in the loop of what's going on instead of embarrassing himself and the organization.

The team/owners are doing a good enough job of that in their own right. They certainly do not need that blowhole adding to the issues.

What a disgrace this entire ownership group/management team is proving to be. It's certainly no wonder this team cannot manage to build a winner with clowns like this running the show.

[djsFlames]

Give us some damn professional renderings, a detailed plan and arguments for why this is far superior to CalgaryNEXT for the city and the team, and then honestly maybe some ground can be broken on this thing.

Burke, King etc can keep posturing and trying to paint the city as the bad guys, but it clearly does nothing but set back the process.

####ing do your part, do a proper unveiling (not a "pre-pre" unveil like CN) of the project. Show us the benefits, wow us with some detailed visuals, then you'll get the citizens on your side, which eventually will lead to the city too.