[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[FireGilbert]

I laugh at comments suggesting the government is being wasteful spending on things like libraries and bridges yet support handing almost $500M over to billionaires.

[TheScorpion]

I wish the election was one year later so that I could vote for Nenshi. He's easily Canada's smartest mayor.

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I wish the election was one year later so that I could vote for Nenshi. He's easily Canada's smartest mayor.

From what I have seen Nenshi is a great mayor. Much better than the do nothing Duerr and the corrupt Bronconnier.

Also, I need to stop reading the FB comments. I just saw some quality casual racism on the arena debate saying Nenshi doesn't like hockey but would support a new cricket stadium

[jschick88]

Amid the uproar over Brian Burke’s threats that the Flames would leave Calgary if they don’t get a new rink, councillors say negotiations between the NHL club and the city are going well, with a new deal expected to be revealed soon.

“I love Burke, but Burke can be a hothead and a blowhard,” said Diane Colley-Urquhart, councillor for Ward 13.

“We are in the short strokes of putting together a deal that people can live with. It will be made public in the next few weeks.

Coun. Jim Stevenson agreed, adding that city council has been well-informed of negotiations throughout the process.

“We have been kept informed of the work that’s been going on at the negotiating table, and we are hearing very positive things,” said Stevenson, councillor for Ward 3. “We’re going to see something good come out of this.

“I’m surprised the Flames haven’t informed him (Brian Burke).”

Coun. Ward Sutherland says the Flames, along with city officials and consultants, have been researching the Victoria Park option for over a year, and are close to settling on a compromise.

“It’s been a very long process, a very complicated process, with many different variations,” he said, explaining that a good deal would have to involve a range of economic benefits to the city beyond just the Calgary Flames, including conventions and big-name concerts.

“There is no yes or no here. It’s more complex than that. But we’re not going to be just handing over a bunch of money.”

Sutherland added that it’s critical a decision be made before this fall’s municipal election, before rookie councillors are added to council without the background required to make good decisions.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...burkes-threats

[Senator Clay Davis]

^ So basically what Bunk told us a while ago. Guess it will be an election issue now if they do release a plan or a deal.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by New Era

But lets play devil's advocate here. Exactly how many of these structures does the city need? There are 18 public libraries in Calgary. According to statistics 393,000 Calgarians hold library cards. The average library in Canada will see just under 98,000 visitors a year. So you have dedicated 18 buildings, with 2,195,000 items in the collection, to service a select group of patrons from the community.

For comparison sake, in the same period the Saddledome attracted just over 1,118,000 fans for Flames and Hitmen games. I can't speak for other events, as those numbers weren't posted, but that's an awful lot of bodies that go through one building.

The devil is a little off in his advocacy. There were 6.7 million visits to Calgary libraries in 2016 and the number is going up every year.

Originally Posted by New Era

So do you spend $250M on another library which sees limited use, of which there are 17 others, or throw that into a building badly in need of replacement, one which sees many more visitors and generates more revenues for the City?

It sees far fewer visitors, and employs fewer people. And no doubt those millions of visits generate 10s of millions in ancillary benefits to businesses nearby (or even in) the library.

Originally Posted by New Era

I don't know, wouldn't it be more worthwhile to build another library where a select few people can loiter or borrow DVDs and CDs to take home and pirate for free?

I think we can all agree there has to be middle ground in this discussion,

Ha. Middle ground indeed.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

^ So basically what Bunk told us a while ago.

Isn't that the common theme through all the arena threads, really?

[Mr.Coffee]

It's interesting to read New Era's opinions in here, but then read his (her?) opinions in the US Orange POTUS thread in Offtopic. For such a ridiculously onesided liberal over in that political thread, who could not be anymore steadfast to refute, debate, and hold views that appear almost disdainful to any conservative or republican lean- to then come over here and advocate for billionaires to get richer off the backs of the citizenry in a city he/she doesn't even live in, in this thread, is so bizarre to me.

Also Colley-Urquhardt (sp?) calling anyone else a blowhard is hilarious.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I wish the election was one year later so that I could vote for Nenshi. He's easily Canada's smartest mayor.

Ya, I'm sure he is very smart. And he doesn't need your vote. In municipal elections the incumbent almost always wins. Even Rob Ford would have had a shot if he ran again.

(One of) The problems with Nenshi is the way he acts. He doesn't act like a mayor. He acts like the 15 year old know it all son of the mayor.

Pretty much the only thing I like about our mayor is his stance on this particular issue. I hope the Mayor, the city and the Flames spend the next 10 years jumping through hoops mainly because

1) The type of new buildings they are making right now are bad for the average fan. I predict most fans will be excited about the new building at first but will end up thinking they were better off with the Dome
2) A publicly funded building needs to last longer than 38 years. Especially if you throw in a publicly funded major renovation to boot
3) If you can charge 350 bucks for a club seat that's great. But then you can buy the chair, the concrete underneath it and the roof on top of it
4) Brian Burke. "The Flames don't need a new building, the city does"

And I don't see why Calgarians are so willing to put up with Nenshi and all of his drama. If we play our cards right this October 4th we can have LIVE CHICKENS IN THE BACKYARD !!

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I wish the election was one year later so that I could vote for Nenshi. He's easily Canada's smartest mayor.

He's easily Canada's most punchable mayor.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

I laugh at comments suggesting the government is being wasteful spending on things like libraries and bridges yet support handing almost $500M over to billionaires.

Maybe we can get TSN and SN to pan their camera's over our state of the art $250 million library instead of Mcmahon and the Saddledome during games, hell lets get a camera inside and see the crowd of 30 or 40 people. that'll show the rest of the country that we're world class!

Seriously, did $250m tax dollars need to be spent on something that 99% of us who paid for it will never see the inside of? including schools there's probably over 200 libraries in this city already, this is the biggest waste of tax dollars since the piece bridge and the dumbest idea since the great blue ring.

I'm totally against the CalgaryNext project but mostly because that location stinks not because we don't need new arena's. Our arena's are becoming worn out and decrepit, it's bad enough our pro sports teams play in junk (especially the stamps) compared to other city's but it's a total embarrassment a town of 28,000 people to the south of us kills us for a baseball park and a field house.

The sooner Nenshi goes the better

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Maybe we can get TSN and SN to pan their camera's over our state of the art $250 million library instead of Mcmahon and the Saddledome during games, hell lets get a camera inside and see the crowd of 30 or 40 people. that'll show the rest of the country that we're world class!

Seriously, did $250m tax dollars need to be spent on something that 99% of us who paid for it will never see the inside of? including schools there's probably over 200 libraries in this city already, this is the biggest waste of tax dollars since the piece bridge and the dumbest idea since the great blue ring.

I'm totally against the CalgaryNext project but mostly because that location stinks not because we don't need new arena's. Our arena's are becoming worn out and decrepit, it's bad enough our pro sports teams play in junk (especially the stamps) compared to other city's but it's a total embarrassment a town of 28,000 people to the south of us kills us for a baseball park and a field house.

The sooner Nenshi goes the better

The library argument has already been covered in the last 5 or 6 pages. I can't think of a better response than what GordonBlue and Table 5 already said:

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

bring it up again when the library is privately owned, you have to pay huge sums to get in, you have to pay to read each book you want, and the librarians make 5 million a year.

Originally Posted by Table 5

People who equate public libraries with private sports arenas tend to come across as the the types of individuals who may benefit from visiting the former a bit more often.

[ToewsFan]

Not sure if this has been posted but an interesting read:

"Burke hammered in on the old lie that building a stadium has any real economic impact on a city—a lie disproven by every single study not funded and directed by teams looking for corporate handouts. And just get a load of the dripping condescension in “our little city.”

“It’s discouraging when other venues cheerfully, willingly construct venues, hockey rinks in Manitoba, football stadiums in Manitoba and Saskatchewan, hockey arenas in Alberta, but our little city is a little smarter than all those people and we’re not going to do it.”

“[K]eep in mind we’re playing against teams in the U.S. that have their venues built for them almost 100 per cent cost and have favorable leases. It’s discouraging when you hear someone from the city say that we have zero economic impact. We think it’s hundreds of millions of dollars.”

(It’s not.)

Canada has for the most part held out against the particularly American scam of blackmailing cities into paying for stadiums and arenas, but that’s changing. Edmonton’s and Quebec City’s new arenas were built with taxpayer money, and the Flames know which way the winds are blowing. There is no downside to them demanding every concession to make their private business more profitable—just as Calgary should continue to resist.

more: http://deadspin.com/brian-burke-to-c...ium=socialflow

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

He's easily Canada's most punchable mayor.

Who cares? What does it matter how likable your politician as long as (1) he's competent; (2) he's not corrupt; and (3) he's not a bigot

That should honestly be the only litmus test. Think about how hard that is to find that - a competent, non-corrupt and non-bigotted leader of our city, province or country in the past 30 years?

• In federal politics...I can't think of a single one. We're just all happy their not too corrupt and sufficiently competent.
• In Alberta, maybe Jim Prentice?
• In Calgary, maybe Al Duerr?

Thats a pretty sad list. And now we have Nenshi - who actually fits the criteria - and we're complaining about how we don't like his personality? boo-hoo.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

He's easily Canada's most punchable mayor.

So basically, if you can't win the argument, resort to violence?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Who cares? What does it matter how likable your politician as long as (1) he's competent; (2) he's not corrupt; and (3) he's not a bigot

That should honestly be the only litmus test. Think about how hard that is to find that - a competent, non-corrupt and non-bigotted leader of our city, province or country in the past 30 years?

• In federal politics...I can't think of a single one. We're just all happy their not too corrupt and sufficiently competent.
• In Alberta, maybe Jim Prentice?
• In Calgary, maybe Al Duerr?

Thats a pretty sad list. And now we have Nenshi - who actually fits the criteria - and we're complaining about how we don't like his personality? boo-hoo.

Every Canadian, Albertan and Calgarian leader in last 30 years, other than Prentice and Duerr, were bigots?

[Joborule]

The library has become the new peace bridge.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Every Canadian, Albertan and Calgarian leader in last 30 years, other than Prentice and Duerr, were bigots?

That is how the younger generation are taught to debate, or resist anything today, call them bigots, racists, xenophobes or ultra-right wing because the person they are slandering doesn't agree with them. Harper, Rona Ambrose, Getty, Duerr, Bronconnier et al were none of those things, but because the poster didn't like their politics then they must be bigots or worse.

[Wormius]

Just for clarification, if the city throws in money for this arena - who ultimately owns it? Should the Flames relocate for whatever reason after the arena is built does CSEC pay back the City? Is CSEC allowed to sell the building if they close up shop here without returning the City's contribution?

[Freeway]

That depends on what they agree to.