"Muslim cabbies Want to Discriminate Against Customers"

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Oh geez. You know, private industry discriminates all the time for a wide range of reasons. I really don't see how this is any different. Yes, it's stupid. Yes, it's unreasonable. But companies are free to be as stupid and unreasonable as they want.

I'll give you an example. I want to get the space below the room over my garage spray foamed. I phone every place in town. They all told me to take a hike. Why? Because the job was too small for them. None of them will take a job below $1500. I got discriminated against.

How about the Calgary Petroleum Club? They didn't allow women to join for decades, and I didn't see anyone here outraged over it.

I invest in the Chou RRSP fund. They require a minimum investment of $15K. What about all those poor little investors that want to invest in it? They're discriminated against.

Yeah, you can throw the "but it's religion!" into the mix. Big deal. I see secular forms of discrimination all the time. Yes, it's stupid. Yes, it's unreasonable. And I'll say it again, companies are free to be as stupid and unreasonable as they want.

I'm going to ask a question here: If those cabbies weren't Muslim, and they wanted to refuse customers that had alcohol on them because of some other reason (pick one), would you still be saying the same things you are now?

Once again, the issue is not the cabbies right to refuse service for whatever reason. The example of the Petroleum Club is a clear case of gender descrimination which is prohibited by law forcing the culd to include women. The example of businesses that refuse service to preserve a profit margin I think are good one in this case. All those private enterprises (cabs, foam sprayers, etc.) CAN, WILL and DO refuse service.

The real question here is should there be an accomodation made for those businesses so they are not financially penalized for refusing service.

In your cases those businesses lose out on the income provided by small jobs - creating a market for invesment companies that accept less than $15K investments or for a foam sprayer to cater to small jobs - but are not asking for special treatment in getting the next contract.

The cabbies are asking for special treatment - the creation of a system whereby their cabs are identified as "Muslim" cabs (yes, it starts out as "non-alcohol" cabs, but can escalate to "no-short-skirts", "no-dogs"). If the prospective passenger has no-alcohol the cab jocky calls for a cab with blue lights (a Muslim cab), if there is alcohol, then he calls for a cab without the lights.

So, let's look at your question: It is twofold - other cabbies refusing service and other religious cabbies asking for special treatment. The answer for non-religious cabbies is clear - refuse service go to the back of the line.

Special treatment for other religious cabbies - Jewish cabbies refuse service to passengers carrying Halifax lobsters. Should their cabs have a yellow light on the roof denoting that they are "non-lobster" cabs? Of course not.

Try asking this question - can a passenger not carrying alcohol refuse a ride from the "non-alcohol" "Muslim" cab and just take the next regular cab in line? I would think that as a passenger i could ride in whatever cab I wanted. But, the current industry standard is that the 2nd or 3rd cabbie in line will refuse you service and send you to the first cab in that line. If a cabbie can refuse me service for whatever reason, can't I refuse to ride in a particular cab for whatever reason?

Singling out Muslim cab drivers for special treatment creates a two tiered system and it is not that farfetched for the list of 'banned passenger substances' to go from booze to dogs to women who are not dressed in a burka. It is not that farfetched to go from 'Muslim cabs with blue lights' to 'Jewish cabs with yellow lights' to 'christian cabs with purple lights'. Improbable, but not impossible.

(as a side, I have noted that in many cities the cab declare that the passenger is entitled to a 'quite' ride - one where the drive does not try to bring you 'into the fold' or berate you with forgien policy debates - in those cases a devoute Evangelist would have a problem as they religiously believe in prostylization and need to ask everyone if they have "found the Lord". Should they be allowed to wait for a passenger who is willing the hear their message?)

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Try asking this question - can a passenger not carrying alcohol refuse a ride from the "non-alcohol" "Muslim" cab and just take the next regular cab in line? I would think that as a passenger i could ride in whatever cab I wanted. But, the current industry standard is that the 2nd or 3rd cabbie in line will refuse you service and send you to the first cab in that line. If a cabbie can refuse me service for whatever reason, can't I refuse to ride in a particular cab for whatever reason?

Brilliant point. I've tried taking a cab that wasn't first in line several times (usually by accident) and they've always direct me to the first cab.

[Lucky boy]

Okay Bleeding, I will bite and respond to your arguments

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

OK, so what is the deal about Muslims and alcohol?

I am pretty sure that muslims try to stay as far from alcohol as they possibly can. A muslim man I work with was holding a small house party and had invited several guests. One of the guests had brought a bottle of wine as a gift, obviously not knowing that islam prohibits alcohol. The muslim was clearly very uncomfortable when the guest tried to hand him the bottle of wine. He politely refused the gift and asked his guest to place the wine on the nearest coffee table to the door. At the end of the night, he politely asked his guest to take the bottle of wine with him. Not once did he touch the bottle, not even to move it from one spot to another.

I am pretty sure islam prohibits muslims from going to areas where alcohol is being consumed, as well as any form of physical handling of the alcohol as well.

I think the article is a little overblown. I highly doubt cabbies ask all their passengers to open up their suitcases and start searching for alcohol. I would think it is more along the lines were the cabbie can visibly see the alcohol, possibly in a duty free bag, and immediately feel uncomfortable having it in his car.

Personally i think its silly for muslim cabbies to not give rides to people who have alcohol with them. Almost any line of work in any non-muslim society will probably have some sort of contradiction to some of the practices of Islam. It is part of the package that comes with living in a country that is different from your own.

I am pretty shocked with the reaction on this board to a silly issue like this. This isn't the end of the world. Muslim cabbies are not going to start rulling NA because they don't want to give rides to people with alcohol. Is this topic really worth 12 pages?

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

The Quran also states 62:5 "The likeness of those who were charged with the Torah, then they observed it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books. Evil is the likeness of the people who reject the messages of Allah. And Allah guides not the iniquitous people."

Can those cabbies at the airport refuse service to Jews? Should they be allowed to?

(all quotes from the Quran are from - http://www.muslim.org/english-quran/index.htm)

This is quite the misinterpretation. From the same page where you copied that verse from, it quite cleary explains that God "warns the muslims of the danger which brought the downfall of the jewish nation". This danger is as explained in the verse as those who read the books of God but do not observe its teachings. God compares those types of peoples to donkeys carrying books. This verse is not meant for only Jews, it is a stern reminder to Jews, Christians and Muslims to make sure they read the books of God and follow its teachings.

I am not overly interested in entering a religous debate with you Bleeding Red, but I am concerned that you threw in the "Muslims descriminate against Jews" card into the circle when not once in the article was there any mention of anything to do with Jewish people. Not only that, but you tried to make it sound as if the Quran commands muslims to descriminate against the Jews. I hope you don't answer to this post with quotes of anything to do with muslims vs jews, as it has nothing to do with the article at hand and I will not respond to it.

I would also like to ask people to stop quoting Jolinar, I really don't need to read his posts.

[Lurch]

Interesting article in a similar vein, except in this case Orthodox Jews were the complaining party. Basically, a gym in Montreal put in opaque glass for a workout studio window to avoid offending a synagogue next door.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...tory/National/

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I'm going to ask a question here: If those cabbies weren't Muslim, and they wanted to refuse customers that had alcohol on them because of some other reason (pick one), would you still be saying the same things you are now?

Excellent point!

Let's say cab drivers couldn't get insurance if they were carrying alcohol in the cabs... or it was illegal to drive with any kind of alcohol in a vehicle... There would NO WAY people would be so vehemently against this. But because it's for religous reasons... waa waa waa!

Man, I hate being right... it makes me look like an ass, or apparently Ann ****ing Coulter!

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Excellent point!

Let's say cab drivers couldn't get insurance if they were carrying alcohol in the cabs... or it was illegal to drive with any kind of alcohol in a vehicle... There would NO WAY people would be so vehemently against this. But because it's for religous reasons... waa waa waa!

Man, I hate being right... it makes me look like an ass, or apparently Ann ****ing Coulter!

um... of course no one would be mad at the cabbies, because it wouldn't be their fault. I for one would be ****ed at the city council or whatever passed that stupid law. In Austin, the only mode of transportation you can have an open container of alcohol is in the back of a taxi, limo, etc and thats up to the discretion of the driver because he might not want alcohol spilled all over his car...

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Lucky boy

I would also like to ask people to stop quoting Jolinar, I really don't need to read his posts.

Ohh...so because you can't handle a healthy debate, you try and sensor people because you do not believe in their positions? Nice. Tell me when I treated you with disrespect and attacked you personally?

Can someone quote this....I am assuming I am on Lucky's ignore list so he won't get this unless he reads a quote.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Lucky boy

Okay Bleeding, I will bite and respond to your arguments



I am pretty sure that muslims try to stay as far from alcohol as they possibly can. A muslim man I work with was holding a small house party and had invited several guests. One of the guests had brought a bottle of wine as a gift, obviously not knowing that islam prohibits alcohol. The muslim was clearly very uncomfortable when the guest tried to hand him the bottle of wine. He politely refused the gift and asked his guest to place the wine on the nearest coffee table to the door. At the end of the night, he politely asked his guest to take the bottle of wine with him. Not once did he touch the bottle, not even to move it from one spot to another.

I am pretty sure islam prohibits muslims from going to areas where alcohol is being consumed, as well as any form of physical handling of the alcohol as well.

I think the article is a little overblown. I highly doubt cabbies ask all their passengers to open up their suitcases and start searching for alcohol. I would think it is more along the lines were the cabbie can visibly see the alcohol, possibly in a duty free bag, and immediately feel uncomfortable having it in his car.

Personally i think its silly for muslim cabbies to not give rides to people who have alcohol with them. Almost any line of work in any non-muslim society will probably have some sort of contradiction to some of the practices of Islam. It is part of the package that comes with living in a country that is different from your own.

I am pretty shocked with the reaction on this board to a silly issue like this. This isn't the end of the world. Muslim cabbies are not going to start rulling NA because they don't want to give rides to people with alcohol. Is this topic really worth 12 pages?



This is quite the misinterpretation. From the same page where you copied that verse from, it quite cleary explains that God "warns the muslims of the danger which brought the downfall of the jewish nation". This danger is as explained in the verse as those who read the books of God but do not observe its teachings. God compares those types of peoples to donkeys carrying books. This verse is not meant for only Jews, it is a stern reminder to Jews, Christians and Muslims to make sure they read the books of God and follow its teachings.

I am not overly interested in entering a religous debate with you Bleeding Red, but I am concerned that you threw in the "Muslims descriminate against Jews" card into the circle when not once in the article was there any mention of anything to do with Jewish people. Not only that, but you tried to make it sound as if the Quran commands muslims to descriminate against the Jews. I hope you don't answer to this post with quotes of anything to do with muslims vs jews, as it has nothing to do with the article at hand and I will not respond to it.

I would also like to ask people to stop quoting Jolinar, I really don't need to read his posts.

He was drawing a comparison....and quite frankly I think the west has reason to be concerned about Muslims...today.
World Conflicts today have a high percentage of Muslims involved...
Muslims vs. Jews in "Palestine," Muslims vs. Hindus in Kashmir, Muslims vs. Christians in Africa, Muslims vs. Buddhists in Thailand, Muslims vs. Russians in the Caucasus, etc...but yes its not directly linked to the Cabbies question or concern at hand. The fact is Muslims are in conflict with Jews and many others.
Islam is portrayed as a peaceful and tolerant religion, yet continually finds itself immersed in terrorism and violent issues due to its intolerance....and thats where the comparison is made with the cabbie situation.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Excellent point!

Let's say cab drivers couldn't get insurance if they were carrying alcohol in the cabs... or it was illegal to drive with any kind of alcohol in a vehicle... There would NO WAY people would be so vehemently against this. But because it's for religous reasons... waa waa waa!

Man, I hate being right... it makes me look like an ass, or apparently Ann ****ing Coulter!

What?? Insuranc companies do not put restrictions on ones policies such as, alcohol is not allowed in the vehicle. The only way I could see that every happening...is if the cabbie has had several DUI convictions...and if that is the case he clearly does not think alcohol is evil.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Ohh...so because you can't handle a healthy debate, you try and sensor people because you do not believe in their positions? Nice. Tell me when I treated you with disrespect and attacked you personally?

Can someone quote this....I am assuming I am on Lucky's ignore list so he won't get this unless he reads a quote.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Thanks...I owe ya a beer.

[redforever]

The example of the Petroleum Club is a clear case of gender descrimination which is prohibited by law forcing the culd to include women.

This is not a good example to use. The Petroleum Club is a private club and as such, can set their membership as they wish. This will be no different than those bars that convert to private clubs to get around the no smoking bylaw that will soon come into effect in Calgary.

As long as the private club is fully registered, with all of its bylaws, rules of membership, operating guidelines and policies meeting the governments conditions for a private club, then that private club is free to operate according to their own bylaws.

And it is no different than the Royal Canadian Legion allowing smoking within their premises either. They too are a private club and can set conditions inside their facility as the membership sees fit.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Cheese

He was drawing a comparison....and quite frankly I think the west has reason to be concerned about Muslims...today.
World Conflicts today have a high percentage of Muslims involved...
Muslims vs. Jews in "Palestine," Muslims vs. Hindus in Kashmir, Muslims vs. Christians in Africa, Muslims vs. Buddhists in Thailand, Muslims vs. Russians in the Caucasus, etc...but yes its not directly linked to the Cabbies question or concern at hand. The fact is Muslims are in conflict with Jews and many others.
Islam is portrayed as a peaceful and tolerant religion, yet continually finds itself immersed in terrorism and violent issues due to its intolerance....and thats where the comparison is made with the cabbie situation.

Wow. I couldn't have said it better myself...

I mean, why should Muslims be allowed to choose who to pick up in their cab based on their religion - because THE WEST HAS REASON TO BE CONCERNED WITH MUSLIMS!

That's right, all Muslims are terrorists and are immersed in violent issues... **** 'em if they want to have the same rights as everyone else. Do I think it's stupid to not let people into a cab if they're carrying alcohol? Yeah. Do I also think that it's stupid to eat bread and wine to represent a dead Jesus? Yes. But who am I to tell people what they can or can not do, ESPECIALLY if it is not causing harm to anyone? I think organized religion is oppressive - but I have the right to choose to not practice any religion. And if anyone tried to take that right away from me, I would be ****ed, to say the least.

Did you ever stop to wonder how many conflicts around the world have been caused because of every other Religion? Or how many conflicts around the world have been caused as a direct result of U.S. foreign policies?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

I think organized religion is oppressive - but I have the right to choose to not practice any religion. And if anyone tried to take that right away from me, I would be ****ed, to say the least.

Did you ever stop to wonder how many conflicts around the world have been caused because of every other Religion? Or how many conflicts around the world have been caused as a direct result of U.S. foreign policies?

What id you were refused service because you are not a believer and it is against the cabbies religious beliefs to associate with nonbelievers?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Wow. I couldn't have said it better myself...

I mean, why should Muslims be allowed to choose who to pick up in their cab based on their religion - because THE WEST HAS REASON TO BE CONCERNED WITH MUSLIMS!

That's right, all Muslims are terrorists and are immersed in violent issues... **** 'em if they want to have the same rights as everyone else. Do I think it's stupid to not let people into a cab if they're carrying alcohol? Yeah. Do I also think that it's stupid to eat bread and wine to represent a dead Jesus? Yes. But who am I to tell people what they can or can not do, ESPECIALLY if it is not causing harm to anyone? I think organized religion is oppressive - but I have the right to choose to not practice any religion. And if anyone tried to take that right away from me, I would be ****ed, to say the least.

Did you ever stop to wonder how many conflicts around the world have been caused because of every other Religion? Or how many conflicts around the world have been caused as a direct result of U.S. foreign policies?

Wow...overreaction? The context is not what I intended and you know it. Way to reach for the stars though.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Wow...overreaction? The context is not what I intended and you know it. Way to reach for the stars though.

Wow... ignoring the topic? If the context was not intended, why did you bring up all those "facts" about Muslims?

Were the citations wrong, did you not say that "the west has a reason to be concerned with Muslims today" or "World conflicts have a high percentage of Muslims involved" or "Islam is portrayed as a peaceful and tolerant religion that continually finds itself immersed in terrorism and violent issues due to it's intolerance"? Why on Earth would you a) think this b) believe this c) stereotype an entire religion this way d) bring this up in a thread regarding basic rights?

Because if you didn't say those things, I apologize, I guess it was out of context...

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

What id you were refused service because you are not a believer and it is against the cabbies religious beliefs to associate with nonbelievers?

Dude, because it's wrong to discriminate against religious beliefs...

this... is... pointless. I'm just going way over your head.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Sowa

um... of course no one would be mad at the cabbies, because it wouldn't be their fault. I for one would be ****ed at the city council or whatever passed that stupid law. In Austin, the only mode of transportation you can have an open container of alcohol is in the back of a taxi, limo, etc and thats up to the discretion of the driver because he might not want alcohol spilled all over his car...

But that's the thing - it's not their fault either that their religion dictates that they aren't supposed pick up these passengers... so why is everyone so upset about it? The issue here is that companies, in particular, discriminate over a variety of issues, and nobody seems to give a damn because hey, it's their policies or it's in the best interest of the company etc. But, when the rationale is Muslim ideology... people seem to take offence.

To me, I see this as every other discrimination in the history of the planet. People get scared of granting the same rights to everyone because of fear. What's next? Homosexual and straight pharmacies were suggested, seperate sections in the saddledome, taxi passengers having to wear a scarf over their head... People are scared that their way of life will be overcome by Muslim ideals, and because of the slippery slope, this is just going to become a Muslim society. Same old problem, different variables...

My only hope in all of this is that when I'm old, I look back and laugh about how people judged individuals because of their religion the way my Grandpa looks back about how people treated women, or people of different races...

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I'm going to ask a question here: If those cabbies weren't Muslim, and they wanted to refuse customers that had alcohol on them because of some other reason (pick one), would you still be saying the same things you are now?

Yes.

This "you are just saying that because they are Muslims" garbage has been tried several times. It's bull****. The particular brand of religion is irrelevant to me. Honest.

If the story was "Christian cab drivers refuse to drive people with alcohol" I'd say exactly the same things. I swear.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Dude, because it's wrong to discriminate against religious beliefs...

this... is... pointless. I'm just going way over your head.

You know what....keep the personal attacks out of it. I have been pretty respectful to you.

Since when is Atheism a religion? What if it is a priest with sacramental wine? Is the cabbie now unable to discriminate because the priest is carrying around one of his religious tools? That would be religious discrimination.