2016/2017 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Again - the Flames already lack a 2nd and 3rd this year.
We know the long-term damage to an organization that can be done by constantly peddling off top 90 picks, particularly to correct past errors (e.g. adding a 2nd to off load Kotalik).
You need some bullets in the chamber to continue to stock pile your organization.
I don't have a problem with the picks that were dealt this year - but you can't do that on an ongoing basis without doing harm to your future.

I agree but Calgary has done a decent job of picking multiple times in thetop 60 of the past few drafts.

2013 - 3 1sts, 0 2nds (Cammalleri trade)
2014 - 1st, 2 2nds
2015- 0 1st, 2 2nd
2016 - 1st, 2 2nds

The Flames have picked 2+ in the top 60 4 years in a row. 2013 they have Monahan while Porier is trending poorly but there is still some hope for Klimchuck.

2014 we have Bennett but both McDonald and Smith look like busts

2015 we had 6 picks in the top 90. Traded 3 of them for Hamilton, traded our 2 3rds for an additional 2nd. Andersen and Kylington are still good prospects for the Flames

2016- to date this looks like the best draft for the top 2 rounds. Tkachuk in the first, Dube and Parsons in the 2nd


In those 4 drafts the Flames picked top 6 3 times and all of those players are on the big club. While Porier, Klimchuck, McDonald, and Smith are not looking great Andersen, Kylington, Dube, and Parsons are likely all in the top 10 prospect list for the Flames this summer.

You need those 2nd rounders to deepen the system. There is a good chance that many of those players bust but guys like that, who are drafted and developed are the type of players you need to keep our core competitive

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Again - the Flames already lack a 2nd and 3rd this year.
We know the long-term damage to an organization that can be done by constantly peddling off top 90 picks, particularly to correct past errors (e.g. adding a 2nd to off load Kotalik).
You need some bullets in the chamber to continue to stock pile your organization.
I don't have a problem with the picks that were dealt this year - but you can't do that on an ongoing basis without doing harm to your future.

Well, it depends on what you trade the picks for. If your realistic hope for a 2nd or 3rd is an NHL regular, and you trade that chance for a young player who's established, you are trading chance for certainty, at the cost of a couple years. If you trade multiple picks for a budding star (Dougie) same thing. On the other hand, if you trade a pick for an older veteran, it's more of a gamble.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I think they'll give him every opportunity to start considering that's whats he brought in for (or at least to work in the top 6) and he's being paid $4.5M to do it.

I can't see ownership happy with him staying on the 4L this year for that money.

No one will be happy if he is on the 4th line, but I don't see him starting in the top 6 unless he has an unbelievable camp or there is an injury in the top 6 necessitating a move. I am preparing for the idea that he might remain on Bennett's wing, which might be a problem. The Flames need more production out of the 3rd/4th lines. Perhaps Brouwer is part of the solution for that, but obviously he needs to play better.

[Enoch Root]

Holy ####, this thread had gone full summer-stupid

1) Brouwer is not going to start this season on the 1st line
2) Trading a 2nd and 3rd to move Brouwer is idiocy
3) Even if you did, you can't acquire a 'legitimate top 6 winger' for $4.5M in free agency

Here's a thought: Brouwer had a bad year. I have heard that can happen to players sometimes. Let's see how things play out before we start throwing away assets that we don't even have.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I think they'll give him every opportunity to start considering that's whats he brought in for (or at least to work in the top 6) and he's being paid $4.5M to do it.

I can't see ownership happy with him staying on the 4L this year for that money.

No it isn't. They brought him in to solidify the right side. They had basically nothing, so they acquired him, Chiasson and Pribyl. Unfortunately, none of them really worked out, but at least they tried.

How much he gets paid is what it is, it is a sunk cost. Just because a player is making $4M doesn't mean you just give him a spot that he doesn't deserve. Gulutzan is paid to win games, not to hand out ice-time based on salary.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No it isn't. They brought him in to solidify the right side. They had basically nothing, so they acquired him, Chiasson and Pribyl. Unfortunately, none of them really worked out, but at least they tried.

How much he gets paid is what it is, it is a sunk cost. Just because a player is making $4M doesn't mean you just give him a spot that he doesn't deserve. Gulutzan is paid to win games, not to hand out ice-time based on salary.

Looked for something where it was specifically stated he was brought in to play top 6. Can't find so I'll retract that statement.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I think Brouwer haters better get comfortable knowing he's likely starting on the first line again next season.

I also hate using the word haters so I'll apologize for that.

Why would anyone hate Brouwer? Seems like a pretty decent guy from all the interviews I've seen. I don't hate any Flames player as the better they play the better the team plays but you would have to have your head buried in the sand to think he was a good player for this team last season. Like many I am hoping Las Vegas picks him up in the expansion draft but it that doesn't happen I hope he becomes a part of the solution and not a problem like Wideman.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Toonage

He was brought in to play in the top 6. Sorry I don't have a quote or link handy but I'm certain he and the coach both said as much.

Which is not at all what you said before.

You said he was brought in to play on the 1st line (he wasn't) and that we should be prepared for him starting there again this year.

Completely wrong, and now you're back-peddling.

He was brought in to play top 6, yes. But he lost that spot and played much of the last 20 games plus the playoffs on the 3rd and 4th line.

So your conclusion (fear mongering) that he'll start the season on the 1st line is just completely baseless.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Why would anyone hate Brouwer? Seems like a pretty decent guy from all the interviews I've seen. I don't hate any Flames player as the better they play the better the team plays but you would have to have your head buried in the sand to think he was a good player for this team last season. Like many I am hoping Las Vegas picks him up in the expansion draft but it that doesn't happen I hope he becomes a part of the solution and not a problem like Wideman.

I use haters as the juvenile term I see it to be. People who are displeased with his play. I don't think they legitimately hate the guy.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Which is not at all what you said before.

You said he was brought in to play on the 1st line (he wasn't) and that we should be prepared for him starting there again this year.

Completely wrong, and now you're back-peddling.

I said he's likely to start on the top line and he was brought in to play top 6.

One is my opinion and the other is something I thought was specifically stated but couldn't find a quote to verify so I retracted.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, it depends on what you trade the picks for. If your realistic hope for a 2nd or 3rd is an NHL regular, and you trade that chance for a young player who's established, you are trading chance for certainty, at the cost of a couple years. If you trade multiple picks for a budding star (Dougie) same thing. On the other hand, if you trade a pick for an older veteran, it's more of a gamble.

Of course it does. But this conversation started with the idea of trading the 2nd and 3rd to dump Brouwer.
I think if you can add a young player to your core then you do that.
But the point remains the same - that if you start regularly stripping away your picks there is a price you pay.

[trackercowe]

^Hossa didn't win the cup with Detroit, he was on the Penguins that year (remember he lost back to back), but I totally agree with what you're saying.

[TheFlamesVan]

Brouwer was suppose to bring grit and net front presence, and he failed to do either. Get rid of him and move on.

A bad season stats wise I can forgive if the rest of your game looks remotely acceptable. I didn't see that personally.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I use haters as the juvenile term I see it to be. People who are displeased with his play. I don't think they legitimately hate the guy.

Now that wideman is off the books, fans need a whipping boy/lightning rod. Enter Troy Brouwer.

[868904]

Brouwer deserves the hate, he was nothing as advertised.

Like others have mentioned, it's not the lack of offensive production, it's the lack of truculence from a guy that was specifically brought in to bring such element.

It's the cowering away from confrontation when he should be standing up for the jersey.

It's the marginalizing the targeting of your star player and condoning it instead of telling the world that it's not acceptable.

This is why Brouwer is hated. He was brought in to make the team tougher to play against, but instead he facilitated the continued softness of the team.

[dino7c]

hate is a strong word...he seems like a good guy

He is the worst contract on the team though, Flames are praying they can give him away in a couple weeks, I doubt it

[Incogneto]

Posted this in another thread, but I think it could also go here for some discussion:

I hope the Flames pull a Pats/Seahawks and trade back a few times to get more kicks at the can.

For instance, the Seahawks this year came into the draft with #26 overall.
Traded #26 for #31 and a 3rd (95th) and 7th.
Then traded #31 for #34 and a 4th.

They turned #26 into:
a 2nd (#34), a 3rd (#95), a 4th (#111), and a 7th. This would be best case scenario for the Flames, IMO. Turn #16 into #30, a 2nd and a 3rd, or something like that.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by InCoGnEtO

Posted this in another thread, but I think it could also go here for some discussion:

I hope the Flames pull a Pats/Seahawks and trade back a few times to get more kicks at the can.

For instance, the Seahawks this year came into the draft with #26 overall.
Traded #26 for #31 and a 3rd (95th) and 7th.
Then traded #31 for #34 and a 4th.

They turned #26 into:
a 2nd (#34), a 3rd (#95), a 4th (#111), and a 7th. This would be best case scenario for the Flames, IMO. Turn #16 into #30, a 2nd and a 3rd, or something like that.

I can see this type of thing happening, and then using some of those picks to get a goalie or two.

16th overall is too much for a Grubauer, Raanta, Pickard, Mrazek or what have you, but if you drop down and grab extra picks you have more ammo.

16 for 18 & 53 (Boston)
18 for 25 & 58 & 85 (Montreal)
25 for 27 & 51 (Blues)

New picks:

1st - 25
2nd - 51, 53, 58
3rd - 85
4th - 109
5th - 140
6th - 171
7th - 202

25 + Rittich for Mrazek or Lehner (Similar to Frederick Andersen trade)
58 + 85 for Raanta or Grubauer (Similar to Cam Talbot trade)

Then you still get two mid 2nd round picks and 6 picks total.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by InCoGnEtO

Posted this in another thread, but I think it could also go here for some discussion:

I hope the Flames pull a Pats/Seahawks and trade back a few times to get more kicks at the can.

For instance, the Seahawks this year came into the draft with #26 overall.
Traded #26 for #31 and a 3rd (95th) and 7th.
Then traded #31 for #34 and a 4th.

They turned #26 into:
a 2nd (#34), a 3rd (#95), a 4th (#111), and a 7th. This would be best case scenario for the Flames, IMO. Turn #16 into #30, a 2nd and a 3rd, or something like that.

16 wont get you a late 1st a 2nd and a 3rd.
I feel there's a better chance we get a quality player around 16 than anything in the 2nd and 3rd round.

I'd rather draft 16 or any higher if possible and turn a Bouma/Chiasson/Brouwer into a 2nd or 3rd round pick and even that's likely a pipedream.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

^Hossa didn't win the cup with Detroit, he was on the Penguins that year (remember he lost back to back), but I totally agree with what you're saying.

right - in the finals back to back (pretty darn good).