Explosion at Ariana Grande Concert in England

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Not that tiny

A) they have done a lot of damage since 2015
B) the repndants arent nessesarily muslim
C) we don't know the sample size of if it's random. They may have done the Pakistan poll inside of an isis hideout

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Exactly

There are 1.6 billion people who identify as Muslim... only a very tiny % of that vast number approve of what Isis is doing

Really? that "tiny %" appears to be a whole lot of people. this is a small sample size from a simple search.

All lies right?

ICM Poll:
40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html

Pew Global Poll
68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/...and-hezbollah/

World Public Opinion
61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi..._Feb09_rpt.pdf

NOP Research:
62% percent of British Muslims say freedom of speech shouldn't be protected
1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-bri...t-islam-first/

Pew Research
26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified (13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified (25% overall).
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old...ns.pdf#page=60

Al-Jazeera poll
49.9% of Arab Muslims polled supported Osama bin Laden

MacDonald Laurier Poll
62% of Muslims want Sharia in Canada (15% say make it mandatory)
35% of Canadian Muslims would not repudiate al-Qaeda
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/01...riah-in-canada

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Really? that "tiny %" appears to be a whole lot of people. this is a small sample size from a simple search.

All lies right?

ICM Poll:
40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html

Pew Global Poll
68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/...and-hezbollah/

World Public Opinion
61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi..._Feb09_rpt.pdf

NOP Research:
62% percent of British Muslims say freedom of speech shouldn't be protected
1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-bri...t-islam-first/

Pew Research
26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified (13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified (25% overall).
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old...ns.pdf#page=60

Al-Jazeera poll
49.9% of Arab Muslims polled supported Osama bin Laden

MacDonald Laurier Poll
62% of Muslims want Sharia in Canada (15% say make it mandatory)
35% of Canadian Muslims would not repudiate al-Qaeda
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/01...riah-in-canada

which equates to how many muslims?

maybe 10K? 20K? 50K

so yes, maybe tiny is the wrong word... Infinitesimal is probably more accurate...

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

which equates to how many muslims?

maybe 10K? 20K? 50K

so yes, maybe tiny is the wrong word... Infinitesimal is probably more accurate...

I see math wasn't your strongest subject

[CliffFletcher]

37 per cent of 16 to 24-year-old Muslims in the UK believe that those converting to another religion should be executed.

After the Charlie Hebdo attacks (where 12 people were murdered because of a satirical cartoon), a poll found 27 per cent of British Muslims had sympathy for the attackers. That's about 750,000 people.

Most Muslims do not support terrorism. Most of the victims of Islamic terrorism are other Muslims. However, to pretend Islam is no different than any other religion today when it comes to violence and terrorism is wilful ignorance. Forget about the West - look at what's going on today in the Philippines and Indonesia. Dozens killed by religiously-inspired violence, with organised, ISIS-inspired fanatics throwing bombs in churches and shooting up hospitals. Show me where Hindus, Christians, or Buddhists are doing the same. We fret over access to transgendered washrooms, while in Indonesia (long regarded as home to a moderate brand of Islam) they're publicly flogging adulteresses and homosexuals, and charging non-Muslim political leaders with apostasy.

A virulant brand of ultra-conservative Islam, unlike anything Christianity has seen in centuries, is taking root in Islamic populations around the world. Ultra-conservative Muslims are much more agreeable to violence against unbelievers, in destroying the kufr - "those who don't believe." Frankly, only someone who has let an ideological narrative close off three-quarters of his brain would fail to see the connection between Islamic extremism and terrorism.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

which equates to how many muslims?

maybe 10K? 20K? 50K

so yes, maybe tiny is the wrong word... Infinitesimal is probably more accurate...

You consider numbers like 35 and 40 per cent, in populations numbering in the millions, as infinitesimal?

Also, the PEW Research Center is one of the most highly-regarded and methodologically sound polling organizations in the world.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I see math wasn't your strongest subject

I see interpreting data from samples isn't yours.

News flash, a sample of a few hundred to a few thousand people doesn't equate to drawing conclusions to the "vast majority" of Muslims...i tend to pause before looking at surveys of less that a total of 15, 000 people (aggregate) in your links and extrapolating those numbers to the 1.6 billion muslims in the world

check your own links genius for the actual number of people sampled...

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Really? that "tiny %" appears to be a whole lot of people. this is a small sample size from a simple search.

All lies right?

ICM Poll:
40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html

Pew Global Poll
68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/...and-hezbollah/

World Public Opinion
61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi..._Feb09_rpt.pdf

NOP Research:
62% percent of British Muslims say freedom of speech shouldn't be protected
1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/many-bri...t-islam-first/

Pew Research
26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified (13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified (25% overall).
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old...ns.pdf#page=60

Al-Jazeera poll
49.9% of Arab Muslims polled supported Osama bin Laden

MacDonald Laurier Poll
62% of Muslims want Sharia in Canada (15% say make it mandatory)
35% of Canadian Muslims would not repudiate al-Qaeda
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/01...riah-in-canada

This is complete nonsense. Not a chance these polls are accurate.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You consider numbers like 35 and 40 per cent, in populations numbering in the millions, as infinitesimal?

Also, the PEW Research Center is one of the most highly-regarded and methodologically sound polling organizations in the world.

you know how surveys work right?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

you know how surveys work right?

Okay, let's set aside surveys, since it's clear you won't believe any that challenge your ideological narrative.

Are you aware of what's going on Indonesia right now? The religious violence against non-Muslims? The public flogging of homosexuals? The institution of Sharia law in Aceh province, and growing calls for it elsewhere in the country? The increasing profile of ISIS? None of this concerns you?

[OMG!WTF!]

The latest email making the redneck rounds is from some South African theologian who equates the percentage of Muslims in a population to the amount of crazy stuff that goes on. Apparently 3% is the magic number. Canada, Australia, the USA have relatively few issues. The UK, France etc are upwards of 10% and there are issues. More Muslims more problems. Somalia, Afghanistan etc, total disasters.

Of course there are millions of other factors involved so the point is obviously bigoted noise. Right?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

This is complete nonsense. Not a chance these polls are accurate.

Yeah sure, look near the top of my post I even predicted this response, Polls lie just so non Muslims can feel good.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Not that tiny

Apparently it needs to be pointed out again that's if you gave this survey exclusively to members of Al Qaeda, roughly 100% of them would have an overwhelmingly negative view of ISIS. That doesn't suggest that they're moderates.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Okay, let's set aside surveys, since it's clear you won't believe any that challenge your ideological narrative.

Are you aware of what's going on Indonesia right now? The religious violence against non-Muslims? The public flogging of homosexuals? The institution of Sharia law in Aceh province, and growing calls for it elsewhere in the country? The increasing profile of ISIS? None of this concerns you?

ideological? Not really.

I simply don't subscribe to the idea that a simple question, without context, can be used to extrapolate to a wider range of the population... while pew is a respected institution, there's a lot more information in each of those surveys, aside from just those particular questions that were cherry picked from the 1000 people in each country surveyed...

i think the root causes are still things that need to be addressed, absolutely. I think the question that triggered the initial conversation is whether there is something inherently negative in that religion, or simply a small fraction using it for their own goals.

I am an agnostic, but know some muslims... i certainly don't see or hear them talking about isil in any positive way...More like anger and being very pissed off at them for doing what they are doing

[peter12]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

I see interpreting data from samples isn't yours.

News flash, a sample of a few hundred to a few thousand people doesn't equate to drawing conclusions to the "vast majority" of Muslims...i tend to pause before looking at surveys of less that a total of 15, 000 people (aggregate) in your links and extrapolating those numbers to the 1.6 billion muslims in the world

check your own links genius for the actual number of people sampled...

Haha, yes, it does.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Apparently it needs to be pointed out again that's if you gave this survey exclusively to members of Al Qaeda, roughly 100% of them would have an overwhelmingly negative view of ISIS. That doesn't suggest that they're moderates.

There's no help for you if you think PEW would poll just known extremists, as a matter of fact if they knew one was an extremist they wouldn't poll them at all.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

The latest email making the redneck rounds is from some South African theologian who equates the percentage of Muslims in a population to the amount of crazy stuff that goes on. Apparently 3% is the magic number. Canada, Australia, the USA have relatively few issues. The UK, France etc are upwards of 10% and there are issues. More Muslims more problems. Somalia, Afghanistan etc, total disasters.

Of course there are millions of other factors involved so the point is obviously bigoted noise. Right?

Depends what you call crazy stuff and depends what you call a Muslim. A few people on here think that the only killings that matter are the ones via bombs and if they were radicalized by isis they are Muslim. And therefore snuffle demands that an imam thet he doesn't know, who for all anyone knows speaks against this stuff all the time, is awful because he didn't do enough.

Murder happens all the time, the sum of all the murders in Canada in 2017 I'm sure that is a higher number than these highly publicized bombings. And the vast majority of the murdering will be done by none muslims. And that's just little Canada. Not important to this truck full Good fellas with pitchforks who want to rid the town of witches.

There's problems everywhere, it just makes snuffle et al feel better about themselves to blame on a different group.

Which is very unconstructive. It solves nothing. Nobody asks, what are the conditions that allow for radicalized kids in the first place. For example what is making these recruits feel marginalized in the first place can anything be done to reduce that? Just blaming and demanding a seemingly innocent imam for not denouncing enough is just very simple.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Apparently it needs to be pointed out again that's if you gave this survey exclusively to members of Al Qaeda, roughly 100% of them would have an overwhelmingly negative view of ISIS. That doesn't suggest that they're moderates.

Or supports of Hamas or Hezbollah. ISIS is just one relatively new Islamic terror organization on the political landscape.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Depends what you call crazy stuff and depends what you call a Muslim. A few people on here think that the only killings that matter are the ones via bombs and since they were radicalized by isis they are Muslim. And therefore snuffle demands that an imam thet he doesn't know, who for all anyone knows speaks against this stuff all the time, is awful because he didn't do enough.

Murder happens all the time, the sum of all the murders in Canada in 2017 I'm sure that is a higher number than these highly publicized bombings. And the vast majority of the murdering will be done by none muslims. Not important to this truck full Good fellas with pitchforks who want to rid the town of witches.

There's problems everywhere, it just makes snuffle et al feel better about themselves to blame on a different group.

Which is very unconstructive. It solves nothing. Nobody asks, what are the conditions that allow for radicalize Asian in the first place. For example what is making these recruits feel marginalized in the first place can anything be done to reduce that? Just blaming and demanding a seemingly innocent imam for not denouncing enough is just very simple.

Well, now we know that the average imam won't stand up and denounce this kind of thing. Abedi's own mosque, the one that threw him out and reported him, was hosting homophobic and anti-semitic speakers for years. It's not hard to see how and why individuals like Abedi come to do the heinous things they do given the cultural milieu they develop in.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Depends what you call crazy stuff and depends what you call a Muslim. A few people on here think that the only killings that matter are the ones via bombs and if they were radicalized by isis they are Muslim. And therefore snuffle demands that an imam thet he doesn't know, who for all anyone knows speaks against this stuff all the time, is awful because he didn't do enough.

Murder happens all the time, the sum of all the murders in Canada in 2017 I'm sure that is a higher number than these highly publicized bombings. And the vast majority of the murdering will be done by none muslims. And that's just little Canada. Not important to this truck full Good fellas with pitchforks who want to rid the town of witches.

There's problems everywhere, it just makes snuffle et al feel better about themselves to blame on a different group.

Which is very unconstructive. It solves nothing. Nobody asks, what are the conditions that allow for radicalized kids in the first place. For example what is making these recruits feel marginalized in the first place can anything be done to reduce that? Just blaming and demanding a seemingly innocent imam for not denouncing enough is just very simple.

Growing up in the United Kingdom - one of the wealthiest, safest countries in the world? Most immigrants, and their children, stick around because even with all the hardships caused by racism etc... it is still a heck of a lot better than the place they came from. That is why they immigrated.

You can blame "root causes" all you want, but I think you are missing the most obvious one.