American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by peter12

I don't really see the humour in this kind of stuff anymore. We are on a constant satirical news cycle now, and it is tiring.

Trump is an endless gold mine of comedy and ridicule, and he fully deserves every joke hurled his way. The damage his administration is doing to that country and its reputation is incredibly depressing, and sometimes people just need a good laugh to keep themselves sane and help them get through the madness of it all. If you're so annoyed by it, then maybe the internet isn't the place for you.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by direwolf

Trump is an endless gold mine of comedy and ridicule, and he fully deserves every joke hurled his way. The damage his administration is doing to that country and its reputation is incredibly depressing, and sometimes people just need a good laugh to keep themselves sane and help them get through the madness of it all. If you're so annoyed by it, then maybe the internet isn't the place for you.

A lot of it is derivative, repetitive, and not even that funny. As I said, they are becoming the new jokes that any stupid person can make, and understand. Just like it was for George W. Bush.

Not to say that I don't mind a good jab every now and then, but most of the so-called satire is basically just played on a loop, and isn't very funny.

But by all means, keep using Twitter to help you get through the "madness of it all..."

[kerriffic]

Originally Posted by peter12

I don't really see the humour in this kind of stuff anymore. We are on a constant satirical news cycle now, and it is tiring. I guess it is for kind of dumb people to feel good about kind of following current events without having to put actual work into understanding what is happening, and why.

Personally, I didn't think Trump had a bad trip, and a lot of what he said to NATO and the G7 actually had a pretty significant impact.

So what would be your benchmark to determine that it was a successful trip because in my eyes he acted like a buffoon (albeit a reserved one compared to his normal buffoonery). What would you say was successful?

Was it telling the Israelis that he had just returned from the middle east while still in the middle east?

Was it him refusing to walk with other world leaders, preferring instead to ride behind in a gold cart?

Was it him telling Germany that he was going to stop Volkswagen and Mercedes from being sold in the states?

Was it pushing the prime minister of Luxembourg out of the way in the now infamous video?

Or how about when this one? https://twitter.com/AdamParkhomenko/...58949659541508

And this gem from Merkel today :

I really don't see how you can say it was a successful trip because by all accounts while it wasn't a disaster it certainly wasn't as successful as you say.


Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[peter12]

Montenegro, old boy. Read the news.

[kerriffic]

Originally Posted by peter12

Montenegro, old boy. Read the news.

I stand corrected on the country. Didn't have to to rewatch the news story on it.... As it's bedtime for my kids right now. But my point stands.

I will concede that I like Trump pushing countries to pay more towards defence.... If Canada does increase their budget because of it then I will be happy for that but otherwise I feel that the trip was mostly useless.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[Ozy_Flame]

I hope Europe goes on it's own for the next four years and the US charts its own track. Then in 2021 the US can play catch up to the rest of the world in terms of sanity and strategic planning of earth.

Here's hoping its not four more years.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

I don't really see the humour in this kind of stuff anymore. We are on a constant satirical news cycle now, and it is tiring. I guess it is for kind of dumb people to feel good about kind of following current events without having to put actual work into understanding what is happening, and why.

Personally, I didn't think Trump had a bad trip, and a lot of what he said to NATO and the G7 actually had a pretty significant impact.

Poor conservatives, don't like being made fun of. Hits too close to home.

What was so great about Trump's trip? That he blew the Saudi's and said nice things about Muslims, completely contradicting every message he made during his campaign? Or was it the confirmation of where the leaked intelligence came from that he disclosed to the Russians, in front of the leader of that country, and on their turf? Or was his spectacular failure at the NATO meetings where he embarrassed himself and the United States with his comments? The only good thing Trump did was keep his mouth shut at the G7. To think, as President of the United States, keeping your mouth shut is now construed as being a success!

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I hope Europe goes on it's own for the next four years and the US charts its own track. Then in 2021 the US can play catch up to the rest of the world in terms of sanity and strategic planning of earth.

Here's hoping its not four more years.

The real break is not between America and the rest of the world, but America and Germany. This is a very significant break, for sure.

The EU coalition is very fractious as you would know if you had been paying attention to anything in the past 4 or 5 years.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by peter12

The real break is not between America and the rest of the world, but America and Germany. This is a very significant break, for sure.

The EU coalition is very fractious as you would know if you had been paying attention to anything in the past 4 or 5 years.

Germany is basically the EU at this point.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

The real break is not between America and the rest of the world, but America and Germany. This is a very significant break, for sure.

The EU coalition is very fractious as you would know if you had been paying attention to anything in the past 4 or 5 years.

This is the first nation stepping up and saying what a lot of them are thinking. When the intelligence community that has been cooperating in sharing information makes moves to cut out the Americans, that speaks volumes of the feeling of the rest of the world. Germany is taking the first step away from the United States. More will follow as they have taken steps to operate at arms length now. You would know this if you had been paying attention to anything in the past 4 or 5 months.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by New Era

This is the first nation stepping up and saying what a lot of them are thinking. When the intelligence community that has been cooperating in sharing information makes moves to cut out the Americans, that speaks volumes of the feeling of the rest of the world. Germany is taking the first step away from the United States. More will follow as they have taken steps to operate at arms length now. You would know this if you had been paying attention to anything in the past 4 or 5 months.

I think what is happening is pretty natural, actually. It's been 70 years since the end of WW2. Germany has always strived to be the preeminent power on the Continent. This formed the basis of Unification, and all of the German wars of expansion. It is hard to say why this is the case, but it has always clashed with French patriotism and the Russian obsession with security. For better or worse, American domination of the Continent accompanied the longest period of peace that Europe has ever seen.

A resurgent Germany, looking to lead the way on its own interests, was probably inevitable, but it won't come without pretty serious consequences. That is, it is extremely stupid to imagine that Germany represents any kind of pan-European consensus, quite the opposite really. The British will stay in the American orbit (intelligence leaks aside), the French will go their own way, and who is to say what happens next?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Germany is basically the EU at this point.

Absolutely agreed. They are the only country with a political spectrum that has pan-ideological consensus on "Europe."

[peter12]

Nm

[Itse]

Trumps European trip was only successful in the sense that he managed to not make a complete joke of himself in public. However, pretty much every serious analyst has commented on how bad he made himself look, and just how clearly out of his league he is in his job. Reading between the lines of the generally very diplomatic people who comment on this stuff with inside information, it's likely that he mostly just managed to destroy what little respect the European leaders might have had for him, and convince everyone that the only thing you have to worry with Trump is possible temper tantrums. He looked like a big kid in an adults party, or as Foreign Affairs put it more politely a novice among experts.

He's going to get played bad if the US doesn't own up to it's mistake and get rid of him.

[photon]

Taking a good whack at the wedge between US and Germany, refusing to endorse Article 5, I'm sure those things would have been on Russia's wish list of happenings...

[peter12]

Originally Posted by photon

Taking a good whack at the wedge between US and Germany, refusing to endorse Article 5, I'm sure those things would have been on Russia's wish list of happenings...

Do you remember when Obama called the Germans "freeriders?"

[photon]

Sure?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

That is, it is extremely stupid to imagine that Germany represents any kind of pan-European consensus, quite the opposite really. The British will stay in the American orbit (intelligence leaks aside), the French will go their own way, and who is to say what happens next?

And none of this is about Germany becoming the central power or authority of anyone, it is the reaction of other nations to the United States. Other nations will look at Trump and see someone not trustworthy or providing the stability you hope for in a superpower. The United States is proving to be extremely unstable right now, and that will push nations away to find other alliances and trading partnerships. It is happening already.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by photon

Sure?

This wedge between Europe and the United States has been growing for a very long time. If American taxpayers keep signalling their opposition to subsidizing German defence budgets, then this divide was inevitable.

The Germans and the Americans have never been natural allies.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by New Era

And none of this is about Germany becoming the central power or authority of anyone, it is the reaction of other nations to the United States. Other nations will look at Trump and see someone not trustworthy or providing the stability you hope for in a superpower. The United States is proving to be extremely unstable right now, and that will push nations away to find other alliances and trading partnerships. It is happening already.

I disagree. Your first and last sentence contradicted each other.

If Germany is looking to pull away from the Anglo orbit, then whose alliance is it looking to join other than one led by Germany.