Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 05-15-2017, 10:38 AM   #21
DuffMan
Franchise Player
 
DuffMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 127.0.0.1
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iggy_oi View Post
I don't believe she was corrupt, but I do believe some of her connections to corporate America made her susceptible to being labeled as a hypocrite or having conflicting interests. It essentially took away her biggest weapon to attack trump with on the campaign.
that's possible, if only Trump had told his supporters he was going to put all of those Goldman Sachs executives in high ranking government positions, oh wait, he did, he said he was going to drain the swamp, and they believed him.
__________________
Pass the bacon.
DuffMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 10:39 AM   #22
GGG
Franchise Player
 
GGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Exp:
Default

I would go back to 538's 10 part series on what happened in the election. It's really well researched and backed with evidence.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/tag/the-real-story-of-2016/
GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GGG For This Useful Post:
Old 05-15-2017, 10:49 AM   #23
iggy_oi
Franchise Player
 
iggy_oi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
making a lot of money wasn't my point.

My point was, back in the 50's, the auto industry was the biggest employer, and people that were doing jobs that have long been replaced by automation, were making middle or above class wages.

Now, Walmart is the biggest employer in America and people are making minimum wages on part time hours.

Trump aint going to change that by bringing back coal jobs, building a pipeline, and ruining the environment, for sake of the fossil fuel industry making more money.
I agree, the point I was making is that the Walmart workers should have taken their place as the middle class earners, and that Walmart should be paying similar taxes to what Ford used to pay. Instead what has happened is the workers are making next to nothing, while the employer has seen their taxes reduced to almost nothing. Trump promises jobs, but more lower paying jobs isn't the answer. Back in those days the higher tax revenue from businesses was used to build the countries infrastructure, which created good paying jobs, which lead to greater tax revenue and higher consumer spending to keep the economy growing. Corporations were still rich, workers just weren't dirt poor.
iggy_oi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 10:54 AM   #24
iggy_oi
Franchise Player
 
iggy_oi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
that's possible, if only Trump had told his supporters he was going to put all of those Goldman Sachs executives in high ranking government positions, oh wait, he did, he said he was going to drain the swamp, and they believed him.
That's another issue, people for some reason believed the things trump said, but people had this mistrust with Clinton. She was always being politically correct which made people question whether or not she was always being honest, while trump saying some of the most ridiculous things ever heard during a campaign actually got people to believe that despite his faults he was the more "honest" candidate.
iggy_oi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 10:57 AM   #25
DuffMan
Franchise Player
 
DuffMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 127.0.0.1
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iggy_oi View Post
I agree, the point I was making is that the Walmart workers should have taken their place as the middle class earners, and that Walmart should be paying similar taxes to what Ford used to pay. Instead what has happened is the workers are making next to nothing, while the employer has seen their taxes reduced to almost nothing. Trump promises jobs, but more lower paying jobs isn't the answer. Back in those days the higher tax revenue from businesses was used to build the countries infrastructure, which created good paying jobs, which lead to greater tax revenue and higher consumer spending to keep the economy growing. Corporations were still rich, workers just weren't dirt poor.
right, but now the Republicans tell the people, they will bring those days back with tax cuts to the rich and corporations.

I also read an alarming stat this past weekend on how many retail jobs have been lost in the past decade or so. Can't remember the exact number, but it was big.
__________________
Pass the bacon.
DuffMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 11:16 AM   #26
iggy_oi
Franchise Player
 
iggy_oi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
right, but now the Republicans tell the people, they will bring those days back with tax cuts to the rich and corporations.
There is a growing movement trying to stop these changes though. People like Bernie Sanders, Robert Reich and Nick Hanuer are becoming increasingly active in getting people to see what is actually going on and how the economy has ended up in the shape it is in. At some point there needs to be a major economic shakeup, it's sad that things almost need to get to the point where people lose everything before deciding to fight for more.

Quote:
I also read an alarming stat this past weekend on how many retail jobs have been lost in the past decade or so. Can't remember the exact number, but it was big.
Online shopping. The numbers are true for the retail industry, however there has also been an increase in jobs in parcel deliveries. Now Amazon is testing drone delivery. This is really where the workers/consumers themselves need to take the power back so to speak, they need to recognize the pattern and stop contributing to the problem. If a company is actively eliminating jobs to increase their profits under the guise of "making their purchases cheaper", they need to start shopping elsewhere. It's a pipe dream to expect most people to pay more for something, but if we won't pay the extra couple dollars to have a person deliver your package instead of a drone or to have a person be your cashier at the grocery store, we're really no better than the companies that are trying to profit from taking away those jobs to begin with and we're helping them do it every step of the way.
iggy_oi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 11:29 AM   #27
Red Slinger
First Line Centre
 
Red Slinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Exp:
Default

I can't speak for others but the things I dislike the most about Hillary are:

-There seemed to be a sense of entitlement around the Presidency.
-She is an uber-political animal.
-She is a political weather-vane. I'm not sure what she really believes in strongly besides women's rights.
-I don't find her to be a particularly effective communicator and she is lacking in leadership skills.

Of course, Trump not only has all of these same flaws but he is much more deeply and broadly flawed. I still can't wrap my mind around why anyone who actually wants the USA to do well would vote for Trump instead of Clinton.
Red Slinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 11:37 AM   #28
DuffMan
Franchise Player
 
DuffMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: 127.0.0.1
Exp:
Default

-There seemed to be a sense of entitlement around the Presidency.

maybe, but she has worked her whole life towards this, she had nothing
handed to her, like say, Donald Trump

-She is an uber-political animal.

?

-She is a political weather-vane. I'm not sure what she really believes in strongly besides women's rights.

disagree, but she didn't have anything too extremist, such as muslim bans, walls, etc. to get the racists and xenophobes all worked up.

-I don't find her to be a particularly effective communicator and she is lacking in leadership skills.

disagree, go watch any of her speeches
__________________
Pass the bacon.
DuffMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 11:42 AM   #29
iggy_oi
Franchise Player
 
iggy_oi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Exp:
Default

I think where Clinton also failed was that her campaign platforms were a little too status quo, where trump promised big changes. When people aren't happy with the status quo they will gravitate towards change. The poor and middle class workers are so desperate for change that they couldn't be bothered to fact check or see how they were being manipulated, they just took trump's word for it that he cared about them.
iggy_oi is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to iggy_oi For This Useful Post:
Old 05-15-2017, 11:47 AM   #30
belsarius
First Line Centre
 
belsarius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Edmonton
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
-There seemed to be a sense of entitlement around the Presidency.

maybe, but she has worked her whole life towards this, she had nothing
handed to her, like say, Donald Trump

-She is an uber-political animal.

?

-She is a political weather-vane. I'm not sure what she really believes in strongly besides women's rights.

disagree, but she didn't have anything too extremist, such as muslim bans, walls, etc. to get the racists and xenophobes all worked up.

-I don't find her to be a particularly effective communicator and she is lacking in leadership skills.

disagree, go watch any of her speeches
This is probably the number one reason she isn't the President. The world is being swept by radical and populist movements and she was the career politician. Never leaning extreme on either side and played the middle like a proper statesman should, the problem is that is not want the electorate wanted. They wanted change for the sake of change, some misguided notion that a change in President could fix everything.

Macron played the center, but he did it much better than Hillary. He was passionate in his convictions where Hillary pandered to as many sides as she could and came off looking opportunistic instead of measured. She was the most qualified person ever to run for the Presidency, but was exploited by the biggest flaw in Democracy, the will of the uninformed masses.
__________________
@PR_NHL
The @NHLFlames are the first team to feature four players each with 50+ points within their first 45 games of a season since the Penguins in 1995-96 (Ron Francis, Mario Lemieux, Jaromir Jagr, Tomas Sandstrom).
belsarius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 11:55 AM   #31
mrkajz44
First Line Centre
 
mrkajz44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Deep South
Exp:
Default

Iggy_oi nailed it. If I had to boil down the election to one sentence, it would be "Trump promised change, while Hillary did not".
__________________
Much like a sports ticker, you may feel obligated to read this
mrkajz44 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mrkajz44 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-15-2017, 11:57 AM   #32
DiracSpike
First Line Centre
 
DiracSpike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: BELTLINE
Exp:
Default

She was offputting to a lot of people. Clearly. You can argue with those perceptions but it's pointless, that's how a lot of people felt when they voted 6 months ago.

History is full of people who might have made decent presidents but public perception did them in. Romney, Mondale, Humphrey...the list goes on. Michael Dukakis lost the '88 election because he looked goofy riding in a tank.
DiracSpike is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DiracSpike For This Useful Post:
Old 05-15-2017, 12:13 PM   #33
Hockey_Ninja
 
Hockey_Ninja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cleveland, OH (Grew up in Calgary)
Exp:
Default

I remember last year when Hillary was running she was on The Breakfast Club and she said that she kept hot sauce in her purse to try to pander to us black folks. I facepalmed so hard at that.
__________________
Just trying to do my best
Hockey_Ninja is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Hockey_Ninja For This Useful Post:
Old 05-15-2017, 12:21 PM   #34
snootchiebootchies
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiracSpike View Post
She was offputting to a lot of people. Clearly. You can argue with those perceptions but it's pointless, that's how a lot of people felt when they voted 6 months ago.

History is full of people who might have made decent presidents but public perception did them in. Romney, Mondale, Humphrey...the list goes on. Michael Dukakis lost the '88 election because he looked goofy riding in a tank.
Yes, I agree. People for some reason just don't like Hillary. She's had that likeability problem since she was first lady. I had my first inkling she might be in trouble when my Uncle who lives in Seattle said he was going to vote for anyone but Hillary, which shocked me at the time because he had always voted Democrat in the past and lived in Seattle! But yet he really disliked her, for reasons you always hear about -- that she's corrupt and too much of an insider, which always sounded very vague to me. But still, for people to vote for Trump over Hillary is still just so unfathomable.
snootchiebootchies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 12:34 PM   #35
zarrell
First Line Centre
 
zarrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper View Post
Like how conservatives and Republicans moved on once Obama was president?
Exactly.
__________________

zarrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 12:52 PM   #36
V
Franchise Player
 
V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Exp:
Default

Obama won on hope and change. Trump won on fear and change. Hilary bringing out all those elitist celebrities probably didn't help her image as an elitist, either.
V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 12:53 PM   #37
squiggs96
Franchise Player
 
squiggs96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Section 203
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper View Post
Like how conservatives and Republicans moved on once Obama was president?
Like how Republicans moved on, even after Trump is president? It's nice neither Trump, nor his supporters, every bring up Obama, Clinton, or the election, now that he's in the White House.
__________________
My thanks equals mod team endorsement of your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
Jesus this site these days
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnet Flame View Post
He just seemed like a very nice person. I loved Squiggy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dissentowner View Post
I should probably stop posting at this point
squiggs96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 02:57 PM   #38
Matata
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Exp:
Default

I think Americans decided that they didn't want to be force fed another puppet president. They were hoping they'd get that in Obama, but didn't and decided that potentially shooting themselves in the foot was preferable to being forced to eat another bowl of ####.
Matata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 03:06 PM   #39
Jason14h
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Exp:
Default

Having an entire election strategy of "Women and Minorities hate trump so they will vote for me" may have been an issue....

Apparently no one every asked "What if these people just don't vote at all?"
Jason14h is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 03:45 PM   #40
Resolute 14
In the Sin Bin
 
Resolute 14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matata View Post
I think Americans decided that they didn't want to be force fed another puppet president. They were hoping they'd get that in Obama, but didn't and decided that potentially shooting themselves in the foot was preferable to being forced to eat another bowl of ####.
Bonus being that they shot themselves in the foot AND elected another 'puppet president'.
Resolute 14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
corrupt , election , flawed , hillary , trump

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:47 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021