[Trade] Stars trade for Bishop and sign him to 6 year deal ($4.916 mil AAV)

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Some of you are so frustrating. So godamned afraid to have a bad contract that you're just happy as can be to let an elite franchise altering player float right on by and say "phew, dodged a bullet"

And all this after just watching our young team turn a corner and finally look elite for a good stretch of the season, only to have the playoffs be an embarrassment mainly due to terrible goaltending.

Pekka Rinne broke into the league in his late 20s, had a few elite seasons and at 30 signed a 7 year $7 million per year contract. He's in year 5 of that contract right now and has even had a few down years in that span, do you think the Preds regret signing that deal?

Whatever. Is what it is. If Dallas signs him I hope I'm dead wrong and he stinks up the joint and makes me look like an idiot for the next 6 years. I seriously doubt it though. He'll probably have a down year or two in there, but when he's on he will carry that team to strong regular season finishes and deep playoff runs.

I get this was your preference but it's just an opinion. You seem as though you're resigned to concluding this dooms the franchise like it was the only option.

With the equipment getting smaller, his average numbers this season and the fact he would have required what will probably be an enormous contract, the feeling missing out on Bishop might not be such a bad thing doesn't seem as crazy as you're trying to spin it.

With the expansion draft this season I think there are a lot of moving parts for a lot of teams. With Treliving's new found autonomy, I wouldn't be surprised to see him come up with a better option that tying our ship to Bishop.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Some of you are so frustrating. So godamned afraid to have a bad contract that you're just happy as can be to let an elite franchise altering player float right on by and say "phew, dodged a bullet"

Possibly because few people view him as elite or "franchise altering" and there is little evidence to suggest he's either of those. What he is, is a good goalie, one who is more likely to perform well on a consistent basis, but that's just about it (and at 7mil on term, who wants that?).

There are some "fancy stats" out there that suggest that Bishop, while good, is actually not much better than average when you even the playing field and average out shots faced and goals against. A season of .916 looks good on paper, but when you realise that 18 other starting goaltenders (goaltenders who played more than 40 games) had a higher SV%, it becomes far less impressive.

It's easy to look at Bishop's stats on paper and think he's more than he is, but when you look at his numbers in context he's just... good... not elite... certainly not "franchise altering." I've said this before, but 50% (2/4) of his seasons have seen him put up numbers below that of the average NHL starting goaltender, nevermind the elite ones. Of course people are going to be thankful we didn't pay huge money and term for that. Until he proves that he can consistently perform above the average play of his peers, he'll never be elite.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

With my top 2 options off the table (Bishop....for now, and Darling), I suppose I should make a new list. I want a veteran starter, but only for 2 years. That should give enough time to both Gillies and Parsons to show enough and possibly take over as the starter. For those reasons I want the following in order:

1) MAF: yes, moments where he looks below average, but they are less common than someone like Elliott with a LOT more playing time and experience as the starter. He has a manageable contract for the next couple of years before we have to start paying some of our younger players.

2) Jaroslav Halak: He's not as great as he used to be but he's still capable of being a starter who can play at least 50 games. He's just not a guy you want to have long term.

3) Ryan Miller: Yeah, he's older, but he's still pretty good. If you think his body can hold up, he could be a stop gap for 1-2 years and give you 50 starts.

I would be okay with Raanta because he's been good for a while now, but I'm not convinced about Grubauer and Korpisalo.

[Alberta_Beef]

I can't believe people are willing to have Halak, but not Elliott. Halak isn't the goalie he was when he and Elliott split the net in St. Louis and even then Elliott was better.

[Vinny01]

There is this assumption by the pro-Elliott camp that he is going to sign a short term cheap contract but why? He finished a 3 year deal making $2.5M per and had great numbers for 2 of those years. He failed in Calgary so he and the team should move on. Sure he has likely screwed himself out of the 5x5 deal but he still should be able to get 2-4 years and around $4M per. Why do some people assume he is going to sign for 2 years at $3M per?

[icecube]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

No way Elliot re-signs with you guys unless he has zero options from any other team (which is definitely possible).

If I was him I would be pretty pissed about how game 4 went down. But beggars can't be chosers I guess.

If he's pissed at anyone other than himself then #### him.

[Moneyhands23]

So if Dallas signs bishop, what do you guys think about taking Neimi from them and switching 1st's in the trade

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Some of you are so frustrating. So godamned afraid to have a bad contract that you're just happy as can be to let an elite franchise altering player float right on by and say "phew, dodged a bullet"

And all this after just watching our young team turn a corner and finally look elite for a good stretch of the season, only to have the playoffs be an embarrassment mainly due to terrible goaltending.

Pekka Rinne broke into the league in his late 20s, had a few elite seasons and at 30 signed a 7 year $7 million per year contract. He's in year 5 of that contract right now and has even had a few down years in that span, do you think the Preds regret signing that deal?

Whatever. Is what it is. If Dallas signs him I hope I'm dead wrong and he stinks up the joint and makes me look like an idiot for the next 6 years. I seriously doubt it though. He'll probably have a down year or two in there, but when he's on he will carry that team to strong regular season finishes and deep playoff runs.

If he was franchise altering the Lightning would have tried harder to keep him IMO. Let's wait and see the money/term of the contract he signs with the Stars before we determine if the Flames would have been better off with or without him.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

So if Dallas signs bishop, what do you guys think about taking Neimi from them and switching 1st's in the trade

Oh no thanks, Stars goalies have really struggled.

(no way the Stars are going to swap picks)

[Toonage]

For those doubting whether or not Bishop would have been good for Calgary, his career stats vs. Pacific division opponents (while not a guarantee of future success on a new team) was good. Very good.

That being said my thoughts are now this. Bring back Elliott for $2.5M, hope he catches mid season lightning in a bottle (for the entire year) and use those savings on bolstering the top 6.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

With the equipment getting smaller

Why has this been a knock on Ben Bishop over the last year or two, as if it's only his equipment that will be getting smaller?

Why will equipment changes have a more adverse affect on Ben Bishop than they will on a guy like MA Fleury?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Toonage

For those doubting whether or not Bishop would have been good for Calgary, his career stats vs. Pacific division opponents (while not a guarantee of future success on a new team) was good. Very good.

That being said my thoughts are now this. Bring back Elliott for $2.5M, hope he catches mid season lightning in a bottle (for the entire year) and use those savings on bolstering the top 6.

I think you can always say that Bishop doubted whether Calgary would have been good for him. The Flames were on his list of teams he didn't want to be traded to after all and if he was ever to come here it would have been all about the money and not the opportunity to be a Flame. Not sure if that's the greatest set of circumstances for either party.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Toonage

For those doubting whether or not Bishop would have been good for Calgary, his career stats vs. Pacific division opponents (while not a guarantee of future success on a new team) was good. Very good.

That being said my thoughts are now this. Bring back Elliott for $2.5M, hope he catches mid season lightning in a bottle (for the entire year) and use those savings on bolstering the top 6.

Flames cannot afford doing this again. Really need a legit goalie going into 17/18 season if you they want to compete with the big boys. I agree with bolstering the top 6 but I don't want a team that will score 4-5 goals and let in 4-5 goals.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Toonage

For those doubting whether or not Bishop would have been good for Calgary, his career stats vs. Pacific division opponents (while not a guarantee of future success on a new team) was good. Very good.

That being said my thoughts are now this. Bring back Elliott for $2.5M, hope he catches mid season lightning in a bottle (for the entire year) and use those savings on bolstering the top 6.

What gives you the impression Elliott will sign for so little?

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

What gives you the impression Elliott will sign for so little?

Lousy end to his season and a lack of suitors who will (or can) pay top dollar.

And wishful thinking to some extent (on everything really - money, midseason form etc)

But really I'm just bummed that Bishop won't be signing here. I genuinely thought he was the best fit.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If he was franchise altering the Lightning would have tried harder to keep him IMO. Let's wait and see the money/term of the contract he signs with the Stars before we determine if the Flames would have been better off with or without him.

No, no, no. This is another move that was forced by the expansion draft. Vasilevsky, like Murray, is the goalie of the future in Tampa and is already nearly as good as Bishop at half of the cost. If you were their GM, would you re-sign a 30 year old goalie to a 6 year $6-7 million contract when you have a replacement for him right now at just $3.5 million for the next 3 years and he's all of 22 years old? Now ask that question again considering your team is already under a cap crunch because you're trying to pay some star forwards and defensemen? Which would you keep long term? Which player would you expose or let go to UFA and which would you protect?

This is pretty much a no-brainer for Yzerman. It's a tough situation, but he made the right call letting Bishop go. It doesn't reflect poorly on Bishop, it's a long-term/cap management situation.

[Backlunds_socks]

to the people saying he'd make too much for the flames: nothing is free in life, you have to pay to play.

[Backlunds_socks]

In the event LA did not want to trade Bishop's rights to Calgary, could Calgary now trade a 4th/3rd to Dallas for Bishop's rights?

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

With my top 2 options off the table (Bishop....for now, and Darling), I suppose I should make a new list. I want a veteran starter, but only for 2 years. That should give enough time to both Gillies and Parsons to show enough and possibly take over as the starter. For those reasons I want the following in order:

1) MAF: yes, moments where he looks below average, but they are less common than someone like Elliott with a LOT more playing time and experience as the starter. He has a manageable contract for the next couple of years before we have to start paying some of our younger players.

2) Jaroslav Halak: He's not as great as he used to be but he's still capable of being a starter who can play at least 50 games. He's just not a guy you want to have long term.

3) Ryan Miller: Yeah, he's older, but he's still pretty good. If you think his body can hold up, he could be a stop gap for 1-2 years and give you 50 starts.

I would be okay with Raanta because he's been good for a while now, but I'm not convinced about Grubauer and Korpisalo.

I like this...and in my ideal scenario, Calvin Pickard would also be added as a 1B in case someone falters.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

In the event LA did not want to trade Bishop's rights to Calgary, could Calgary now trade a 4th/3rd to Dallas for Bishop's rights?

Sounds more like Bishop preferred Dallas to Calgary, and that's why he's there.