Flames' 2017 Off-Season Defence Discussion

[TheIronMaiden]

The Flames will need to give three defencemen roster spots for next season.
Right now, they only have four NHL defencemen under contract for next season:
Mark Giordano
Dougie Hamilton
TJ Brodie
Matt Bartkowski (two-way contract)

The Flames might give a spot to one of their RFAs:
Ryan Culkin
Brett Kulak
Tyler Wotherspoon

Or maybe to one of their defensemen in the AHL:
Kenney Morrison
Rasmus Andersson
Oliver Kylington

The Flames might also choose to extend one of their UFA defencemen:
Michael Stone
Deryk Engelland

The Flames will also be looking at UFA defencemen :
Kevin Shattenkirk
Karl Alzner
Brendan Smith
Kris Russell
Trevor Daley
Johnny Oduya
Michael Del Zotto
ANDREI MARKOV
RON HAINSEY
DMITRY KULIKOV
Cody Franson

Finally, the Flames might look for a trade option especially with the expansion draft looming.


Discuss

[SeanCharles]

I think 3 of the top 4 are obvious and so long as Kulak doesn't get claimed in expansion he will be in the mix for a top 6 spot. Bartkowski will either be the 7th dman or be in the AHL.

I'm not a huge fan of the free agent market so it will be interesting how Tre fills the holes. I like Engelland and Stone but more as number 5 guys and Engelland is older and Stone likely won't come cheap enough. But if possible, to sign both to reasonable deals, I wouldn't hate:

Gio-Hamilton
Brodie-???
Kulak-Stone
Engelland

Just need to find one other piece.

[bigrangy]

Brodie-Hamilton
Giordano-Andersson
Kulak-Stone
Wotherspoon

Some kids are going to have to step up eventually, might as well have it be now.

[TheScorpion]

I think we see Engelland gone, and the top four staying the same. From there, I think we could see any of Kylington, Andersson, and Kulak on the third pair with a UFA, preferably Kulikov, and Bartkowski as the #7.

Um also, regarding the OP, I know he in all likelihood won't be back next year but for the sake of completeness Wideman is also an NHL UFA.

[Tinordi]

There's some good arguments to take a good look at Cody Franson. Seems to be the best #4 defenseman available with the space the Flames have.

I would be very hesitant to sign Stone for anything more than $3 million.

Big no to Alzner and Kulikov, they have the brand name but no performance to match.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I think Bartkowski is on the team next year as the 6th/7th d-man depending on who else makes the team.

I think Rasmus Andersson also makes the team out of camp as a 6th/7th d-man unless he has a HORRIBLE camp. That leaves 1-2 spots for UFAs.

As for the UFAs, we need someone for probably 3 or 4 years. That means HELL NO to anyone over 30. That means all of Markov, Hainsey, Oduya, Russell, Daley, and even Engelland.

That leaves guys like Shattenkirk, Alzner, Stone, Smith, Kulikov, and Del Zotto for the Flames to try and sign one.

No way to Shattenkirk as he will command far too much money and term.

I'd be interested in Alzner at no more than $4-5 million per year, but no longer than 4 years.

Stone also could be good, but not if he's going to command more than $4 million per year, he's not worth that much IMO.

Kulikov had a really tough year, but he's so much better than what he showed in Buffalo this year, so I'd be willing to take a chance on him on a 2-3 year deal. He could be had for a very reasonable price. He'll have to take a haircut on last year's salary of $4.5 million. I'd guess about $3-3.5 million for 3 years.

I've never liked Smith, so no to him. Same thing for Del Zotto.

Outside of those options, I can't think of a possible trade scenario, but then stranger things have happened.

If Kulak isn't claimed in the expansion draft, he probably ends up being the 7th dman rotating in with Andersson.

[Cycling76er]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

There's some good arguments to take a good look at Cody Franson...

Apparently CP has an in with his cousin.

[bubbsy]

They gonna bring oduya in to help kylington make the jump to the nhl next year.

[ricardodw]

Flames with Stone 13-3 ---- the 16 games just prior to getting Stone 7-8-1

Kind of points to the Flames needing what Stone brings to the table.

[transplant99]

Getting Alzner would be a remarkable coup but its also very unlikely. He is gonna get paid somewhere and he will make whoever he plays for a better team.

I really liked what Stone provided for the club in his short sample size, but again he will probably be pricey as a UFA.

I suspect that any additions will come through trade only at this point and who knows where that could lead.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Flames with Stone 13-3 ---- the 16 games just prior to getting Stone 7-8-1

Kind of points to the Flames needing what Stone brings to the table.

Meh, that's irrelevant. The same applies to Bartkowski.

[Erick Estrada]

I don't mind Alzner but I don't think he's going to be anywhere near worth the deal he's going to fetch. Pretty underwhelming list of UFA's IMO and I would probably try to get a deal done with Stone as he's accustomed to the system and would be ready to go in game one of the season in hopes this team can for once come out of the gates playing well.

[Roof-Daddy]

So what is the deal with Alzner? I thought he was pretty much universally accepted as a perfect new age shut down Dman where as he is big and physical, yet mobile and can move the puck.

Yet I see a lot of fans lately not so keen on him. Is there something in the advanced stats etc that paint him in a poor light? Bad qual comp or terrible possession metrics or something?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Um also, regarding the OP, I know he in all likelihood won't be back next year but for the sake of completeness Wideman is also an NHL UFA.

The list is supposed to be succinct so that the information was relevant and accessible.

I also omitted Kanzig, Healey, and Kostka, because their odds of making the Flames roster is equal to Wideman's.

I am open to suggestions for the UFA dencemen list though.

[Itse]

Stone was a good fit as a #4 in a mediocre team, nothing more. I expect his pricetag to be very reasonable.

[GranteedEV]

My thoughts:

UFAs:

Shattenkirk - Way too expensive. Hard no.

Stone - Adequate stop gap thanks to offensive ability but not a long term solution due to defensive issues. I want him back if he's cheap but I don't want to pay him anything potentially crippling. And I think his ask will be crippling. Still the a good option with his point shot if the contract is a bargain.

Russell - same as Stone. Different visually but functionally the same kind of player as Stone - good but flawed. Still, for the type of team we should be building - hard skating, quick, there are worse options.

Alzner - See Russell and Stone, with less offense. Don't be fooled by the size and Holtby's save making ability. I'd rather have Stone by a mile.

Daley - At age 33 he'd be a perfect stop gap.

Del Zotto - My choice if Stone prices himself out. Should be affordable, and can play up the lineup. Doesn't fit that size aesthetic people on these boards are obsessed with but he's a good fit as a #4 / #5.

Franson - Good bottom pair option. Should work dollars-wise. Perfect player for bringing a kid like Kulak in.

McIlrath - The perfect #7. Some upside there too, but not so-trusted that the coach is going to play him in crucial playoff games. He'll take a minimum contract. I still remember a game against the rangers we played where he was paired with Yandle and looked strong in a second pair role.

Engelland - Not a guy you want playing top 6. Hurts the development of guys like Bennett, Wotherspoon and Kulak with his conservative decision-making forcing them into overly tough situations. I don't want him back, "toughness" be damned...

Kulikov - Young, but a drag on his team. Pass.

Bartkowski - Under contract, but not an NHL defenseman. Send him to the minors.

Prospects:

Kulak - NHL defenseman, but still a bit too soft to play top 4. Deserves to play 82 NHL games next year. I see a future top 4 guy but let's start with top 6. He's comfortable on the right side so that'd probably be an option. My biggest hope is they let him kill some penalties next year.

Andersson - IMO not NHL-ready. If we call him up he needs to play only on the right side, none of this left side nonsense. A great summer will go a long ways but just not the full ways.

Ollas-Mattsson - My dark horse. I think he's ready for the NHL and a better, more stable D than Wotherspoon. But knowing our management they'll be overly conservative in handling him. Sign him and bring him to NA, I hope.

Wotherspoon - NHL-ready, but replacement level. I would like him as a cheap #7. However I think there's enough potential there that they should roll with him as the #6 and see where it goes.

Kylington - Love his potential but he's still overwhelmed by the lack of time in the AHL game at times. More AHL time needed. I have a lot of belief in this kid unlike others on here.


I would like to go into next season with:

Giordano-Hamilton
Del Zotto-Brodie
Kulak-Franson
McIlrath

Ollas-Mattsson-Andersson
Kylington-Healy
Falkovsky-Wotherspoon

[Roof-Daddy]

Here's the million $ question..

How intent is the Flames coaching staff in keeping the lefty/righty pair thing going?

Seems like it was a pretty big deal to GG as I can recall, and if that's the case our biggest need on D is clearly a RIGHT SHOT Dman capable of playing top 4 minutes.

That also severely limits the UFA options. You have:

Shattenkirk - Gonna cost way too much for a #4 / 2nd pairing Dman
Wideman - lol, right?
Franson - Seems like a decent fit and should cost less than Stone
Stone - Seems like a good fit in just about every way
Engelland - Not your best option for top 4 duties IMO

That's it.

That's every right hand shot UFA Dman that averaged more than 18 minutes a game.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Meh, that's irrelevant. The same applies to Bartkowski.

Disagree with this notion. Stone played a more pivotal role once they both arrived. Brodie also significantly approved with him as his partner too.

He is steady, doesn't try and do to much, possesses a good outlet pass and has a bomb of a shot. I really hope they bring him back, agree that the price has to be right, but I think he fits well with Brodie. If they do bring him back I hope GG gives him some PP time this year too.

[TheScorpion]

Oh no, I have absolutely nothing against Stone... I was the first guy here really pumping his tires rooting for Treliving to acquire him. But I don't think it was just his arrival which led to the big push, it was a combination of the following factors:

- Gaudreau, Monahan, Ferland, and Versteeg all getting hot
- Elliott playing lights-out
- Yes, better defense
- A weaker schedule

With all that said, though, re-signing Stone would be my #2 priority this summer, with Versteeg coming soon after and a goalie coming first.

[MarkGio]

If they can get good deals from Stone and Kulikov, those are my picks.

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Stone
Kulikov - Anderson
Bartowski