Who do you WANT the Flames Starting Goalie To Be Next Season [*NEW POLL 12·05·17]

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I must not have been paying enough attention.

I didn't mean to seem like I was arguing MAF vs Elliott.

I want neither, and the fact that both seem to be mentally fragile, display confidence issues, and have spells where they are absolutely terrible is the biggest reason why.

I get that fear and I agree that'a a risk with Fleury, but there's risks with every goalie available. I don't think Fleury is on the high end of risky choices.

To me Fleury looks like a guy that has gotten it together in the recent years. It's not just playoffs, his last two regular seasons as a starter (2014-16) were his best years statistically. It's a development I feel has been overshadowed by his reputation as inconsistent, and of course Murray stealing the net from him.

I like Bishop over Fleury because Bishop wouldn't cost us anything other than money, but I think there's a good chance the team getting Fleury will have themselves a great starter for several years.

[Par]

After watching these playoffs, the organization can see, what goalies can do what and get a good idea of what they want. Some goalies are folding under pressure(Hotlby) and some are thriving in it.

I think the Caps might be a team where we can make a "highway robbery" deal because they are under pressure and may be out of the playoffs early.

[Erick Estrada]

Holtby for the record since entering the league has the best playoff stats of all active NHL goaltenders so while he's had a tough playoffs you can argue that this isn't the norm for him. It's a year to year thing though as Price wasn't exactly great in his first round series against the Rangers. It happens to the best.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Let's see Fleury has won 9 playoff series in his career Elliott has won 2. Fleury is a proven number 1 and has played those minutes throughout his career Elliott is a 1a/b goalie who was given a chance to really be that number 1 guy this ear but still couldn't hit 50 starts because he was awful for a large chunk of the season. You can try and sell me that they are equally as good as one another but i simply don't agree. There is also way more heat on Treliving if he comes back with the same tandem next year.

The guy who has started significantly more playoff series, has won more? Color me shocked! What an absolutely stupid comparison. Fleury also played almost his entire career with 2 of the top 3 players in the NHL leading the way, Elliott never had that luxury. You put Elliott on the Penguins and I have little doubt he would have been just as successful as Fleury.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

The guy who has started significantly more playoff series, has won more? Color me shocked! What an absolutely stupid comparison. Fleury also played almost his entire career with 2 of the top 3 players in the NHL leading the way, Elliott never had that luxury. You put Elliott on the Penguins and I have little doubt he would have been just as successful as Fleury.

Fleury has started more because he's been better. He entered the league younger (Drafted 1st overall the year Elliott was #291) and has been the starter more consistently. Both have mostly played for playoff teams, but unlike Fleury, Elliott has only been the starter about half the time.

2009-10 Elliott got replaced by Pascal Leclaire three games into the playoffs.
2011-12 Elliott only became the starter after Halak got injured.
2013-14 Blues started Ryan Miller.
2014-15 Blues started Jake Allen.

2017 The Flames are likely to become the fourth team to move on from Brian Elliott, while the only reason Penguins are likely to move Fleury is because of the unique circumstances of the expansion draft and them having another very good but much younger goalie in Matt Murray.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

The guy who has started significantly more playoff series, has won more? Color me shocked! What an absolutely stupid comparison. Fleury also played almost his entire career with 2 of the top 3 players in the NHL leading the way, Elliott never had that luxury. You put Elliott on the Penguins and I have little doubt he would have been just as successful as Fleury.

Okay it seems like you are getting a tad bit closer to why some people think Fleury is a better option than Elliott. He has started more games in his career and is a far more proven number 1 goalie right? Secondly he has played in and won far more playoff games than Elliott. Sure he has played on a far better team with 2 generational superstars but you can't take that experience away from him.

Elliott played 5 years for one of the best regular season teams of that timeframe. They spent a ton of assets on Ryan Miller because they didn't believe Elliott could get it done. The season he is in net for a couple victories they ship him out for a draft pick at the draft. Clearly there is not a huge belief in Elliott and his dismal play in the playoffs in Calgary goes with that narrative. Fleury had his own playoff struggles but appears to have moved on from those with his Con Smyth worthy performance thus far.

At the end of the day I am not changing your mind and you won't change mine but every reply you come back with an insulting tone saying comparisons are stupid and moronic makes it difficult to try and have a civil debate.

[Azhouse]

I've seen Elliott and Fleury in these playoffs.

Fleury>Elliott

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

I've seen Elliott and Fleury in these playoffs.

Fleury>Elliott

Just curious, have you seen the Penguins team quit in front of Fleury for 30+ minutes at a time? Take a ridiculous amount of stupid penalties? Fail to score at ES or in the third period? I'm going to guess no. Comparing the Flames to the Penguins simply isn't a fair representation. Yes Elliott struggled, no doubt, but Fleury has had his struggles in the past in the playoffs too. Last year Elliott was every bit as good in the playoffs as Fleury has ever been. The main difference between the two is Elliott was a late bloomer.

Fleury will give us the same inconsistency we saw with Elliott, it will cost us an extra 2+ million a year and assets to acquire him.

[burnitdown]

There goes #3 on the list. You have to wonder if Elliott would take a deal less than what Darling signed for?? Carolina paying for potential but Eilliott has a lot more proven success.

[TheScorpion]

People are making a lot of noise about Fleury's playoff history.

For comparison, here is that of Ben Bishop:

39 games played
21 wins
13 losses
5 shutouts
2.09 GAA
.927 SV%

Bishop kicks it up a notch in the playoffs. In 2016 alone, he let in only 18 goals in 11 games. Get him, Brad.

[Roof-Daddy]

So as mentioned in the Darling thread, I wouldn't expect anything less than 6 x 6 for Bishop. Question is, is there more than one team willing to give him that? ..and if so, which one would he pick?

Calgary - Have the cap space, no NHL goalie currently signed, and although we have decent prospects, there is 1 and 1/3 total NHL game experience among the entire group put together. An upstart team with a young core and a bright future. Also a good hockey market, but that can be a good or bad thing, depending on the player.

Vegas - Have the cap space and no NHL goalie currently signed. They have no goalie prospects pushing either. They should have a few solid options for goaltending via the expansion draft, but IMO none of them are as appealing as Ben Bishop, who could come in and stabilize the position right from the word go. They also have an exclusive negotiating window to sell Bishop on their plan, but if he wants to be on a winner right away, it will have to be one heck of a sell job.

Winnipeg - They have the cap space, but they are cheap. They Hhve Hutchison signed next season, but he's hardly an obstacle. Could be easily moved or buried in the minors with little consequence. They do however have their heir apparent in Hellebuyck already playing NHL games, so Bishop may feel like he'd be walking straight into a Vasilevsky situation again. They have a lot of good young players and potential for a strong future, but it is Winnipeg so it's hard to imagine Bishop biting, even if they offered him 6 x 6.

Philadelphia - They also have the cap space, and they aren't cheap. I could easily see them offering up the goods for Bishop. Stolarz is in the system, but hasn't proven much yet, and Neuvirth is signed, but only to high end back up money, and at this point all he is is a decent back up. Big american market, with lots of good players, a solid prospect pool and a seemingly bright future. If they offer Bishop the money he wants, I could easily see him heading to Philly.

NY Islanders - They already have a lot almost $8 million committed to Greiss and Halak next season, and seem high on Greiss, although I'm not sure why. Weird organization that always seems to take steps backwards shortly after making gains. They have a history of being cheap, and with money committed already to goalies I can't see them going for it, and even if they did I doubt Bishop would bite. Not a well run or consistent organization.

Vancouver - I could see them making an offer. I know they want to see what Markstrom is all about, and they are really high on Demko but they have lots of cap space, and you'd think Markstrom could be moved if they had to. Just entering a rebuild though, so I'm not sure it would be all that appealing to Bishop.

Dallas - $10.4 million committed to Niemi and Lehtonen but for just one year. Many think this team is poised to take a run at Bishop, and I have to agree. Probably have to buy one goalie out, and then suck it up for a season with a massive hit on goalies but they have the cap room for it. American market, and some nice pieces they might be able to sell Bishop on going there.

Buffalo - Lots of cap space and lots of money. they have a good young goalie in Lehner, but he's signed for cheap and could easily be traded. He's also the guy the last regime brought in, so the new guy might want to go another direction. Young team, lots of potential for a bright future and another American market which may be appealing to Bishop.

I'd say the biggest threats are Buffalo, Philly and Dallas, with an outside shot at Vegas wooing him.

But yeah, I don't see anything less than 6 years at $6 million per. Maybe closer to the $40 million total that cousin guaar was yapping about.

$40m / 6 = $6,666,666
$40m / 7 = $5,714,286

Guess will see.

Brad will probably surprise all of us by trading for Matt Murray or something.

[HappyGilmore]

Didn't the Flames almost get Ward a few years ago?

[Vinny01]

I wonder what Buffalo would do with Lehner? What are people's thoughts on bringing him in? Still young, good numbers, Flames could re-sign Johnson who he was already a tandem with in the past. What would he cost in a trade?

[Love]

Pickard please

[getbak]

Originally Posted by HappyGilmore

Didn't the Flames almost get Ward a few years ago?

Yes. That was one of the rumoured cap-dump deals Treliving was working on at the 2014 Draft (the other being acquiring Ribeiro from Phoenix).

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by getbak

Yes. That was one of the rumoured cap-dump deals Treliving was working on at the 2014 Draft (the other being acquiring Ribeiro from Phoenix).

I wouldn't say "almost got", they definitely tried to get him, but it was rejected by Carolina.

[Ryan Coke]

Good look at the situation for getting one of the Pittsburgh goalies by Darren Haynes.

Fleury or Matt Murray

[Iceman90]

Scott Darling, but that won't happen now.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

Good look at situation for getting one of the Pittsburgh goalies by Darren Haynes.

Fleury or Matt Murray

I can't see the Penguins parting with Murray. By the time Fleury's contract expires Murray still won't even be in his prime yet and I can't see why they would ship out what looks like a long time franchise goaltender for the tail end of Fleury's career.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I can't see the Penguins parting with Murray. By the time Fleury's contract expires Murray still won't even be in his prime yet and I can't see why they would ship out what looks like a long time franchise goaltender for the tail end of Fleury's career.

I agree but the market for Fleury is going to be a limited one where Murray can be shopped league wide and command a huge return.

Dallas might part with a 2nd for Fleury and try and get the Pens to take back one of their goalies. They might offer the 3rd overall pick for Murray?

Vancouver wasn't the smartest organization but when Gillies couldn't make a deal for Luongo he shippped Schneider off for the Horvat pick. Where the Canucks are today Horvat is a more important piece for the next 10 years than Schneider would be.

Perhaps the Pens think they have something in Jarry? Perhaps they think they can get a top end goalie prospect plus more of what they need right now?

Would Winnipeg move Trouba for Murray?