Who Does Vegas Take From The Flames In The Expansion Draft?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Gaudfather

Just listening to Treliving talk on Fan 960 this week (after his contract extension) he sounded pretty positive on Brouwer - leaving goals and assists aside - it was about his leadership in the room etc.. I'm not sure Treliving will even expose Brouwer when the June expansion draft comes.

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I also think that Brouwer will get protected.

To be clear, this isn't what I want to happen, really I am indifferent. The Flames seem to like him and their goal production isn't so good that they can spit in the face of 13 goals. Brouwer is not an addition by subtraction player. He is just not as good as his pay grade, still, it doesn't seem like the Flames are bothered by his contract.

I just don't see it, as that means one of Lazar or Ferland are exposed. Ferland is a non-starter as far as I know, and Lazar was just acquired for a 2nd round pick.

With the way Treliving covets draft picks, there's just no way he engages in poor asset management like that, imo.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I just don't see it, as that means one of Lazar or Ferland are exposed. Ferland is a non-starter as far as I know, and Lazar was just acquired for a 2nd round pick.

With the way Treliving covets draft picks, there's just no way he engages in poor asset management like that, imo.

I see your point.

Its hard to say what managements strategy is. I interpret Treliving's moves as trying to load up on talent for cheap, so that who ever gets picked never hurts the team long run. Whether it is Lazar or Brouwer exposed, they will be exposed along side prospects and probably a few D-Men. Therefore it is not as simple as those two.

The management team has probably not made up their mind, and won't until they know what their roster is like. My main point with that previous post is that Lazar getting protected over Brouwer is not a foregone conclusion like some have asserted. I wouldn't be surprised if it went either way.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by codynw

Why? Stajan is more useful, cheaper and has less term than Brouwer. That's who I think they'll take, but I'd prefer if it was Brouwer.

That poster hates Stajan. Which IMO is why you didn't hear much from him this year about Stajan, who had a pretty darn good year from start to finish.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I see your point.

Its hard to say what managements strategy is. I interpret Treliving's moves as trying to load up on talent for cheap, so that who ever gets picked never hurts the team long run. Whether it is Lazar or Brouwer exposed, they will be exposed along side prospects and probably a few D-Men. Therefore it is not as simple as those two.

The management team has probably not made up their mind, and won't until they know what their roster is like. My main point with that previous post is that Lazar getting protected over Brouwer is not a foregone conclusion like some have asserted. I wouldn't be surprised if it went either way.

I simply can't see why on earth they protect the $4.5M 4th liner they signed last summer and failed to live up to even modest expectations over the 22 year old they gave a good pick to acquire. Lazar is often talked about being a long term play and potential core piece. They don't risk losing him to protect the overpaid veteran. It makes no sense imo.

[edn88]

I think that people want Vegas to take Brouwer, but if he is exposed, I think Vegas would pass given his price tag, unless he has the leadership that Treliving spoke of, in which case I feel like he is going to be protected by the Flames.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by edn88

I think that people want Vegas to take Brouwer, but if he is exposed, I think Vegas would pass given his price tag, unless he has the leadership that Treliving spoke of, in which case I feel like he is going to be protected by the Flames.

You could be right about Vegas steering clear of the contract but who would the Flames expose in order to protect Brouwer unless they trade one of the other 7 forwards before the expansion draft. Brouwer is the only possible forward over 30 they would be protecting. It is not happening he is getting exposed and it is a coin flip of Begas takes him

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I simply can't see why on earth they protect the $4.5M 4th liner they signed last summer and failed to live up to even modest expectations over the 22 year old they gave a good pick to acquire. Lazar is often talked about being a long term play and potential core piece. They don't risk losing him to protect the overpaid veteran. It makes no sense imo.

I agree, I would prefer Lazar myself. But that doesn't answer the question of who the Flames management values more. Who they value more is the debate that they are having now.

My guess is that they will value a guy like Stone more, as such, they will use either Brouwer or Lazar as bait so that Stone doesn't get selected. In that scenario they would expose who ever they think LV covets more. This is just a guess, but I can imagine that the Flames management will debate different scenarios over the coming weeks. Nothing is concrete, there are simply too many variables.

Mostly I am just playing devils advocate.

[FlamesAddiction]

I just can't see them exposing Lazar, as others mentioned, we gave up a decent draft pick for him. Plus, he performed well in the games he played.

I am 99% sure that both Lazar and Ferland will be protected based on their upside and age.

I think Brouwer will be the odd guy out. If they don't take him, then great. I'd be happy to see how he does on the Flames next season. I do feel that of the players to pick from in this poll, he has the best potential for making a an impact on an expansion team.

At the same time, I am not saying that the $4.5 million wouldn't be great to go shopping with, so I could live with it either way.

[jayswin]

I have this weird feeling we'll actually lose Versteeg to Vegas. I don't mean that it will be some horrible loss, but I feel Vegas might be the one team in the league that one ups everyone else's offers on him.

He played so well for us this year, and while a lot of teams will be willing to make respectable offers, and while Calgary is likely his preferred team, I could see Vegas just saying "You know what, give him 3x3, he'll be a productive, fun player to watch for fans that we can get without assets, and with our cap room let's just get him in here".

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

It will be really interesting to see what the Flames do. I actually think Treleving's comments on him made me feel more likely that he wouldn't be protected, with one of the two goals in mind:

1. Talked up Troy's leadership so much, to make him more appealing to Vegas.
2. Actually doesn't think Vegas will take Troy, so he'll risk exposing him, and wants Troy to still feel valued after the org leaves him unprotected and he's likely going to end up being back.

Who knows of course, but that thought had crossed my mind.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

It will be really interesting to see what the Flames do. I actually think Treleving's comments on him made me feel more likely that he wouldn't be protected, with one of the two goals in mind:

1. Talked up Troy's leadership so much, to make him more appealing to Vegas.
2. Actually doesn't think Vegas will take Troy, so he'll risk exposing him, and wants Troy to still feel valued after the org leaves him unprotected and he's likely going to end up being back.

Who knows of course, but that thought had crossed my mind.

I could see the second one, but the first one is really a classic fan theory that completely undermines the intelligence of an NHL GM. Not only is McPhee not stupid enough to have what Treliving says on a local AM radio show matter in his decision, but I honestly doubt he ever hears it.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by codynw

Why? Stajan is more useful, cheaper and has less term than Brouwer. That's who I think they'll take, but I'd prefer if it was Brouwer.

Stajan is also older, almost has never played above the 4th line in the past few years and is weaker and less physical than Brouwer. Only edge he has over Brouwer in terms of value/worth is that he plays the more important position (centre). Stajan is as overpaid as Brouwer if not moreso.

Unless McPhee is a big Stajan fan I can't see them selecting him. They'd have to think he could play 2nd/3rd line centre and that is the only way you'd take him. It's a huge stretch to think they would view him that way at his age and at the stage of his career he's in. Otherwise the term and age on Brouwer is way more attractive or the upside of the minor league players is much more attractive.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I could see the second one, but the first one is really a classic fan theory that completely undermines the intelligence of an NHL GM. Not only is McPhee not stupid enough to have what Treliving says on a local AM radio show matter in his decision, but I honestly doubt he ever hears it.

I don't disagree with that. We always think that the managers get their info from the media the same way we do, like they don't have their own staff making up their own minds about players, or that they don't actually talk to other managers directly.

My thought was more around the 2nd point, but also no harm in re-iterating what he may be saying to McPhee or others behind closed doors.

[Roof-Daddy]

I ended up picking Brouwer.

Whether you want to believe it or not, he's the best NHL player available for them to take.

If they take the best prospect available, then that's Kulak, and I sure hope that isn't what happens. Hopefully their (soon to be) surplus of 4-7 Dmen keeps them from taking him.

I think Brouwer can and will bounce back, so I find myself hoping that Vegas signs Engelland or Versteeg in the 48 hour window, and we keep all our players.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I agree, I would prefer Lazar myself. But that doesn't answer the question of who the Flames management values more. Who they value more is the debate that they are having now.

My guess is that they will value a guy like Stone more, as such, they will use either Brouwer or Lazar as bait so that Stone doesn't get selected. In that scenario they would expose who ever they think LV covets more. This is just a guess, but I can imagine that the Flames management will debate different scenarios over the coming weeks. Nothing is concrete, there are simply too many variables.

Mostly I am just playing devils advocate.

Originally Posted by jayswin

I have this weird feeling we'll actually lose Versteeg to Vegas. I don't mean that it will be some horrible loss, but I feel Vegas might be the one team in the league that one ups everyone else's offers on him.

He played so well for us this year, and while a lot of teams will be willing to make respectable offers, and while Calgary is likely his preferred team, I could see Vegas just saying "You know what, give him 3x3, he'll be a productive, fun player to watch for fans that we can get without assets, and with our cap room let's just get him in here".

I'm confused. Why would Vegas take a chance on a UFA who could just decide to walk a couple of days after the draft and test free agency anyway. At that point, besides money, what does Vegas have to offer a UFA? Would you want to go to an expansion franchise if you only had so many years left?

The likelihood of them selecting UFAs in the expansion draft is pretty much nil since they can get decent players that are younger or under club control for at least a couple of seasons. That makes more sense than taking a chance by selecting a player for their "negotiating rights".

[PepsiFree]

McPhee also knows Brouwer, so I think he'd have a fairly well-formed idea of what he's getting.

But the second one, absolutely. Though it could be argued that pumping a player up that much in the media about how integral they are to the locker room... just to expose them... could backfire. That said I'm sure the players know the expansion draft is just business, I doubt there will be too many hurt feelings knowing there are limited spots available. Who knows.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I'm confused. Why would Vegas take a chance on a UFA who could just decide to walk a couple of days after the draft and test free agency anyway. At that point, besides money, what does Vegas have to offer a UFA? Would you want to go to an expansion franchise if you only had so many years left?

The likelihood of them selecting UFAs in the expansion draft is pretty much nil since they can get decent players that are younger or under club control for at least a couple of seasons. That makes more sense than taking a chance by selecting a player for their "negotiating rights".

They can sign those UFAs just before the expansion draft, which would count as their pick. They wouldn't select them in the actual draft.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I'm confused. Why would Vegas take a chance on a UFA who could just decide to walk a couple of days after the draft and test free agency anyway. At that point, besides money, what does Vegas have to offer a UFA? Would you want to go to an expansion franchise if you only had so many years left?

The likelihood of them selecting UFAs in the expansion draft is pretty much nil since they can get decent players that are younger or under club control for at least a couple of seasons. That makes more sense than taking a chance by selecting a player for their "negotiating rights".

There is a 48 hour window right before the expansion draft for Vegas to court UFA's.

If they sign one, then the team that UFA belonged to won't have a player taken. That signed UFA will count as that player.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

^Huh, thanks. I didn't realize that little wrinkle was thrown in there. I still don't see it being likely, but possible to some extent.

[GioforPM]

The UFA risk is more Stone than Versteeg I think. But Stone wants to re-sign, whereas Versteeg is a bit more of a mercenary I think.