2016/2017 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[868904]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

He's also put up 75+ points more than Brouwer over that same time...


No, no his comparable is not Versteeg.

I get it, the guy is overpaid and part of the loser core of a loser organization. But up until this year, where he still put up 50+ points, the guy has been a consistent high level 60+ point producer in a league where there aren't many consistent 60+ point producers.

Over the last 4 years only 29 players have outscored him, he has the same amount of points as the Sedins, more than Duchene, Marleau, Monahan....

He's no more a comparable to Brouwer and Versteeg than Monahan is a comparable to Letestu.

The problem with analyzing Eberle's numbers are that for most of those 60+ point seasons, the Oilers were playing with virtually no structure or discipline. Offense was encouraged and backchecking and defense were optional.

For the first time in year, the Oilers have system play, and Eberle's numbers drop. RNH's numbers drop. Are these players as good as their numbers indicate or was it just a reflection of one way hockey?

[Weitz]

He was still top 30 in RW scoring while playing on the 2nd line for the majority of the year in a checking role.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by 868904

The problem with analyzing Eberle's numbers are that for most of those 60+ point seasons, the Oilers were playing with virtually no structure or discipline. Offense was encouraged and backchecking and defense were optional.

For the first time in year, the Oilers have system play, and Eberle's numbers drop. RNH's numbers drop. Are these players as good as their numbers indicate or was it just a reflection of one way hockey?

Yeah, that's great. But he's still not a comparable to Troy ####ing Brouwer.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be criticized, heck I even said he was overpaid, I'm just saying have some actual real perspective. Comparing him to Versteeg just makes us look laughable.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Pretty ridiculous statement at the end there. Eberle has zero defensive game. Nice how you use a 4 year sample size and toss Monahan in there so his 34pt rookie season skews the numbers.



Eberle is paid to be an elite top line talent and he is a middling second line forward. He might score 10-20pts more than Frolik but brings zero on the PK and makes $1.7M more. Frolik got those dollars as a 27 year old UFA and Eberle gets his deal out of his ELC.

I'm not even an Eberle fan but to say he's "paid to be an elite top line talent" is gross hyperbole.

He has the 36th highest cap hit among forwards. Elite top line talents like Kane, Kopitar, Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Getzlaf, etc all have cap hits north of 8 million.

Comparables for Eberle salary wise are Plekanec, Backes, Saad, Duchene, Staal, Forsberg, Eriksson, Okposo, Zetterberg. Essentially fringe first liners/ second line players.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Consistent 60+ is a stretch considering he had 60+ 3 of his 7 seasons. With his last one three seasons ago. He got a ton of points early in his career because the Oilers had no system and thought purely offense.

Calling a guy with a career 62 points per 82 games a consistent 60 point producer is not a stretch considering he would have done it four of the last 6 seasons if not for the lockout, and another year he fought injuries.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by bax

I'm not even an Eberle fan but to say he's "paid to be an elite top line talent" is gross hyperbole.

He has the 36th highest cap hit among forwards. Elite top line talents like Kane, Kopitar, Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, Stamkos, Getzlaf, etc all have cap hits north of 8 million.

Comparables for Eberle salary wise are Plekanec, Backes, Saad, Duchene, Staal, Forsberg, Eriksson, Okposo, Zetterberg. Essentially fringe first liners/ second line players.

There are 31 teams so there for 93 players play on the top line. He is very close to the top 1/3 in terms of cap hits. You are telling me because some teams signed some bad UFA contracts that makes Eberle valuable?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Pretty ridiculous statement at the end there.

Well yeah, it's suppose to be ridiculous, that was the premise. Comparing Eberle to Versteeg is ridiculous. That was the premise of my post.

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Eberle is paid to be an elite top line talent and he is a middling second line forward.

I called him overpaid. But no, he is not a middling second line forward.

Here's a complete list of right wingers who have outscored Eberle over the last 3 years:

Kane
Tarasenko
Kucherov
Wheeler
Voracek
Kessel
Stone
Perry
Zuccarello
Simmonds
Oshie

It's a list of 11. If he's a middling second line right winger, there should be around 45 other right-wingers outscoring him in a top 6 role.

And elite top line talent, as shown by the person on the top of that list, are making 10M a year now (and have for sometime in actual cash). Eberle makes 60% of that.

[Weitz]

Ha just looked and Eberle's makes 57% of what Kane makes and had 57% of the points Kane had. Interesting.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

There are 31 teams so there for 93 players play on the top line. He is very close to the top 1/3 in terms of cap hits. You are telling me because some teams signed some bad UFA contracts that makes Eberle valuable?

That's not really a good way to look at it. Would you consider Ferland a top line player because that's where he played? What about Connor Sheary or Erik Haula?

I'm not saying Eberle is valuable. In fact I think given his price tag he is a very mediocre asset to have.

What I'm saying is that calling his salary what elite top line players make just isn't true.

When I hear "elite top line player" I think of the best of the best in the league and those players don't make 6 million a year. They make in between 8-10 million a year.

In my opinion Eberle is slightly overpaid, but he's right in that range of fringe first liners/second line players.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Well yeah, it's suppose to be ridiculous, that was the premise. Comparing Eberle to Versteeg is ridiculous. That was the premise of my post.

I called him overpaid. But no, he is not a middling second line forward.

Here's a complete list of right wingers who have outscored Eberle over the last 3 years:

Kane
Tarasenko
Kucherov
Wheeler
Voracek
Kessel
Stone
Perry
Zuccarello
Simmonds
Oshie

It's a list of 11. If he's a middling second line right winger, there should be around 45 other right-wingers outscoring him in a top 6 role.

And elite top line talent, as shown by the person on the top of that list, are making 10M a year now (and have for sometime in actual cash). Eberle makes 60% of that.

Classic HF overreaction with the Letestu to Monahan comparison. Someone doesn't like the comparable of the player they are defending and they come back with a 10x more ridiculous comparison. It doesn't do anything for your arguement and doesn't change anyone's mind on Eberle. I think it makes your arguement weaker.

Would you trade Frolik for Eberle straight up? Eberle scores more points so obviously he is better by your standards that points are everything. Eberle is putrid in his own zone and brings nothing but decent offense and is paid to be a ppg player or a complete 200ft player that plays in all situations. He earned that deal because he was great at putting up numbers in his ELC. He hasn't lived up to the contract.

He is not comparable to Brouwer since they play different styles but they share the similarities that both are overpaid RW that are going to be tough to move in a trade.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by bax

That's not really a good way to look at it. Would you consider Ferland a top line player because that's where he played? What about Connor Sheary or Erik Haula?

I'm not saying Eberle is valuable. In fact I think given his price tag he is a very mediocre asset to have.

What I'm saying is that calling his salary what elite top line players make just isn't true.

When I hear "elite top line player" I think of the best of the best in the league and those players don't make 6 million a year. They make in between 8-10 million a year.

In my opinion Eberle is slightly overpaid, but he's right in that range of fringe first liners/second line players.

I stand by my statement. He is near the top third in terms of what forwards make. Eliminate the centers from that list he is likely one of the higher paid wingers in the league. Eberle is paid to either score a ton of points or be a complete player. He does neither so in my opinion is grossly overpaid for the value he brings.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I stand by my statement. He is near the top third in terms of what forwards make. Eliminate the centers from that list he is likely one of the higher paid wingers in the league. Eberle is paid to either score a ton of points or be a complete player. He does neither so in my opinion is grossly overpaid for the value he brings.

His stats aren't actually terrible for a winger (he'd be on the top line of any team, stat wise) but his pay is certainly wonky.

Last year Eberle was the 14th highest paid winger in the league, while putting up the 44th most points (out of wingers). That doesn't tell the whole story, as out of the 13 wingers paid more than Eberle, 5 of them scored less than Eberle. Though each of those five are in their 30s, with a few having exceptionally "down" years, while Eberle is 26 and scoring at his usual rate.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Classic HF overreaction with the Letestu to Monahan comparison. Someone doesn't like the comparable of the player they are defending and they come back with a 10x more ridiculous comparison.

Well, classic CP. I guess?

I never defended Eberle, my first post here was calling him part of the loser core and saying he was overpaid. In any other forum, that would be the definition of putting him down. Only on CP would that be considered defending a player because he happens to be on the Oilers.

Versteeg had no takers, would have been playing in Switzerland if not for Visa issues this very past summer. He's a fringe top-6 player who happened to have a bit of a bounce back on a team with terrible winger depth. Comparing him to Eberle is ridiculous, who if not for his salary, would be a welcomed addition to any team's top 6.

At least Letestu didn't have to flee to Europe to play....

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Well, classic CP. I guess?

I never defended Eberle, my first post here was calling him part of the loser core and saying he was overpaid. In any other forum, that would be the definition of putting him down. Only on CP would that be considered defending a player because he happens to be on the Oilers.

Versteeg had no takers, would have been playing in Switzerland if not for Visa issues this very past summer. He's a fringe top-6 player who happened to have a bit of a bounce back on a team with terrible winger depth. Comparing him to Eberle is ridiculous, who if not for his salary, would be a welcomed addition to any team's top 6.

At least Letestu didn't have to flee to Europe to play....

I thought the comparison was Brouwer? He and Brouwer share the fact both are overpaid RW. Monahan and Letestu play centre that is where the comparison ends. Brouwer at $2.75M per and Eberle at $3.5M are different stories.

Versteeg has outscored Eberle these playoffs while playing in 5 less games so even though it took a PTO to get a deal in the league doesn't mean he is a bad player. He scores 35-40pts for $1-2M Eberle scores 50ish points for $6M. Not an asinine comparison either.

[Fire]

Eberle seems like the perfect player for Vegas. In return Las Vegas could trade a couple of 2nd round draft picks and maybe one of the 3rd pairing defensemen they selected in the expansion draft. Vegas should have plenty of picks after the expansion draft so it shouldn't be a problem. The Oilers get the extra cap space to pay Draisaitl, etc.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Fire

Eberle seems like the perfect player for Vegas. In return Las Vegas could trade a couple of 2nd round draft picks and maybe one of the 3rd pairing defensemen they selected in the expansion draft. Vegas should have plenty of picks after the expansion draft so it shouldn't be a problem. The Oilers get the extra cap space to pay Draisaitl, etc.

Oilers won't have to make a decision on chopping salary until after the end of 2017/2018.

Unless they need to clear room to bring in a superior player it doesn't really make any sense to dump perfectly useful players until that point in time.

[Robbob]

I tried to find the info but I couldn't seem to figure it out the extact time, but to me it looks like me spent a good chunk on McDavid's wing. So I think he gets a McDavid bump that inflates his stats a bit.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I tried to find the info but I couldn't seem to figure it out the extact time, but to me it looks like me spent a good chunk on McDavid's wing. So I think he gets a McDavid bump that inflates his stats a bit.

even strength about 40% of the time, PP about the same:

http://dobberhockey.com/players/jordan-eberle

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I tried to find the info but I couldn't seem to figure it out the extact time, but to me it looks like me spent a good chunk on McDavid's wing. So I think he gets a McDavid bump that inflates his stats a bit.

That's ridiculous. The guy has a 62 point pace over the entirety of his career. He scored 76 points before McDavid was playing in Juniors. We are now going to argue that his worst season statistically was a boost from McDavid? Wow.

McDavid did affect his stats...negatively, but not as much as Draisaitl. He was no longer top line through most of the season, he played with Hopkins and Lucic or Pouliot for a large amount of the time on the second line. As the second line, his ice-time was sharply reduced. From nearly 20 minutes in years before to under 17. PP time was greatly affected compared to his time playing on the top line with Hall a couple seasons ago. From 3:00+ to under 2:15. Of course he saw time with McDavid, but being replaced by Draisaitl had a far more negative affect this year. And Draisaitl would replace any team's top right winger except for Chicago, Tampa and St. Louis.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

And Draisaitl would replace any team's top right winger except for Chicago, Tampa and St. Louis.

It's so hard to judge when he plays with McDavid. But I'd take Radulov and Laine over Draisaitl as well. And how many goals would Kessel or Voracek get with his Highness?