2016/2017 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Kylington just had two very good seasons in the AHL, especially for an 18 and 19 year old.

Adam Fox just had a historic freshman NCAA season.

These are not "average" prospects.

Above average prospects that have proven zero in the nhl and who might be years away in trade for a bonafide first line scorer.

The trade as written would never happen.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Above average prospects that have proven zero in the nhl and who might be years away in trade for a bonafide first line scorer.

The trade as written would never happen.

I wasn't commenting on any trade.

Those are not average prospects is all I was saying.

[Bunk]

NJ, Phi picking 1-2. My mind pretty quickly went to: hmmmm, I wonder if there would be thought to a trade involving Gaudreau for 1 or 2.

I doubt it, but he'd be a highly marketable commodity there. More than either potential pick, likely.

[Love]

Originally Posted by Bunk

NJ, Phi picking 1-2. My mind pretty quickly went to: hmmmm, I wonder if there would be thought to a trade involving Gaudreau for 1 or 2.

I doubt it, but he'd be a highly marketable commodity there. More than either potential pick, likely.

No thx. I don't trust Patrick and his injury history, and it's no guarantee that Hischier will be better than Gaudreau.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Yes, do you really think Kylington and Fox are sure fire prospects? Especially ones that'll get you an already established NHLer? They're average prospects to anyone who isn't biased by cheering for the Flames.

I think if you were to do a bell curve of every team, there are high end prospects, medium-high end, medium end,... And so forth. Some teams might have a different distribution, but nevertheless, the "average" prospects are just that, the middle guys found on a team's prospect list.

Kylington and Fox would not be ranked mid-way through the teams prospect list. I would probably​ rank them:
1) Parsons
2) Fox
3) Jankowski
4) Andersson
5) Kylington
6) Gillies

And so forth... My rankings are based moreso on potential and that top 3 could be changed where Jankowski is first if you place more weight on NHL-likelyhood, but regardless Fox and Kylington would probably go top 5 on most lists of the Flames rankings. Guys like Falkovsky and Phillips are probably closer to the average prospect in a team's system.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

LOL@Fox at #2 on your list. What a joke

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

LOL@Fox at #2 on your list. What a joke

Yeah, he should probably be #1.

Of all the Flames' prospects I would consider Fox as having the only chance to be a game breaking impact player.

I'm really looking forward to following him next year to see if he can take another step into historic territory.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Yeah, he should probably be #1.

Of all the Flames' prospects I would consider Fox as having the only chance to be a game breaking impact player.

I'm really looking forward to following him next year to see if he can take another step into historic territory.

Any list that has Fox ahead of Jankowski has no credibility IMO. It's clear some are caught up by the stats. Undersized defencemen have a lot of hurdles they have to jump through to make it to the NHL. Meanwhile we've got a 6'4 skilled playmaking centre who was one of the best rookies in the minors. That means a lot more than what Fox has accomplished so far. And Jankowski's game translates much easier with his size.

Basically by putting Fox ahead of Jankowski you admit to several biases. But what succeeds in pro hockey is often different than these biases. It's true that more undersized defencemen make the NHL these days. But it's also true that many of them struggle to "defend" adequately at the NHL level in their own zone. Even if Fox is the next Barrie or Goestisbehere, I still take the 6'4 playmaking top two line centre (Jankowski) over him in a heartbeat. Just a rarer commodity that is more valuable.

Seems to be a combination of underrating Jankowski as a prospect combined with overrating Fox based on his crazy offensive numbers.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Yeah, he should probably be #1.

Of all the Flames' prospects I would consider Fox as having the only chance to be a game breaking impact player.

I'm really looking forward to following him next year to see if he can take another step into historic territory.

I value goalies > defenseman > centres > wingers > role players. I also value certain attributes more than others,
such as (with the exception of goalies) IQ > Skating > play making > release > back-checking > sacrifice

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Any list that has Fox ahead of Jankowski has no credibility IMO. It's clear some are caught up by the stats. Undersized defencemen have a lot of hurdles they have to jump through to make it to the NHL. Meanwhile we've got a 6'4 skilled playmaking centre who was one of the best rookies in the minors. That means a lot more than what Fox has accomplished so far. And Jankowski's game translates much easier with his size.

Basically by putting Fox ahead of Jankowski you admit to several biases. But what succeeds in pro hockey is often different than these biases. It's true that more undersized defencemen make the NHL these days. But it's also true that many of them struggle to "defend" adequately at the NHL level in their own zone. Even if Fox is the next Barrie or Goestisbehere, I still take the 6'4 playmaking top two line centre (Jankowski) over him in a heartbeat. Just a rarer commodity that is more valuable.

Seems to be a combination of underrating Jankowski as a prospect combined with overrating Fox based on his crazy offensive numbers.

And I specifically mentioned how you can replace Jankowski with Fox in my post. It's a joke how poorly you can read.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

And I specifically mentioned how you can replace Jankowski with Fox in my post. It's a joke how poorly you can read.

And yet you had Fox ahead. And thus your list is a joke IMO. But most of your posts are so what else is new right?

[Nsd1]

Originally Posted by Bunk

NJ, Phi picking 1-2. My mind pretty quickly went to: hmmmm, I wonder if there would be thought to a trade involving Gaudreau for 1 or 2.

I doubt it, but he'd be a highly marketable commodity there. More than either potential pick, likely.

I don't think it would make sense for the Flames. They would need someone back that could replace Gaudreau's production. Only Voracek and Giroux fit the requirement but both are older and have worse contacts.

Philly and Dallas are in a good position now. Neither really need a prospect and can easily trade down and get a decent NHL ready player back. I think New Jerseys in a tough spot, kinda stuck between rebuild and retool. I think they'll try to sign Shattenkirk this off-season.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

And yet you had Fox ahead. And thus your list is a joke IMO. But most of your posts are so what else is new right?

Such arrogance. Jankowski only started to look like a high-end talented prospect one, maybe two seasons ago. It took him 3 to 4 NCAA years to start producing consistently in that league. That's Draft + 3 years.

What Fox is doing in his Draft + 1 year is simply amazing is already a display of high-end talent.

Now despite these facts I still maintained objectivity and argued a case for Jankowski, relative to what a person values. The fact that you took an insult to it shows that you're not capable of knowing what's a joke and what isn't.

[Caged Great]

Just throwing my top 10 prospects out there just because why not add to the conversation.

1) Jankowski
2) Fox
3) Parsons
4) Andersson
5) Kylington
6) Hickey
7) Gillies
8) Mangiapane
9) Dube
10) Phillips
HM: Shinkaruk, Klimchuk, Hathaway, Kulak, McDonald, Falkovsky

For me, 1-6 are virtually interchangeable. They are all very close to one another as being potential high quality players at their position. Still believe Janko could become a 2nd line C, with the 4 D-men being potential 3-4's with higher end upside. Eat Bread, Dube, and Phillips all look like they have higher end scoring potential, where the other forwards in the HM look like they will be 3rd/4th liners if they make the NHL.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I still take the 6'4 playmaking top two line centre (Jankowski) over him in a heartbeat. Just a rarer commodity that is more valuable.

Seems to be a combination of underrating Jankowski as a prospect combined with overrating Fox based on his crazy offensive numbers.

I'd think calling Jankowski a playmaking top 2 line centre is equally overrating a prospect.

[djsFlames]

If only Fox and Parsons were 5 years older. They fill in this teams gaps perfectly, but they're still damn babies.

[StanTheMan]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Such arrogance. Jankowski only started to look like a high-end talented prospect one, maybe two seasons ago. It took him 3 to 4 NCAA years to start producing consistently in that league. That's Draft + 3 years.

What Fox is doing in his Draft + 1 year is simply amazing is already a display of high-end talent.

Now despite these facts I still maintained objectivity and argued a case for Jankowski, relative to what a person values. The fact that you took an insult to it shows that you're not capable of knowing what's a joke and what isn't.

I couldn't agree with you more. FDW is WAY overvaluing Janko just because he is further along in his development and he couldn't be more off base IMO.

Fox was over a PPG player as a ROOKIE - scoring 40 points in 35 games. Jankowski wasn't even close to that, ONLY scoring 18 points in 34 games as a rookie. It wasn't until his SENIOR year that he was over a PPG, and even then, Janko's senior production is STILL behind Fox's rookie season! On top of that, Janko is a FORWARD while Fox is a DMAN.

The fact that FDW got his panties in such a bunch over your preference for Fox over Jankowski is absolutely ridiculous. A very solid argument can be made for ranking Fox above Jankowski in terms of potential future impact at the NHL level.

[MarkGio]

I think this is how the Kovalchuk situation will play if he doesn't want to play for New Jersey:
-- Kovalchuk will sign with Jersey, but threaten to "retire" again if Jersey doesn't trade him
-- Shero needs a tradeable contract (ie, 3 million for 2 years) from Kovy to make it happen.
-- Shero will refuse to sign him and WILL NOT vote for his ability to play in the league if Kovalchuk doesn't sign a tradeable contract
-- Shero will give Kovalchuk a NTC so that Kovy gets some control of where he plays
-- Shero gets a 1st round pick or whatever from the contract, which is better than nothing

Obviously Jersey needs Kovalchuk on that roster because they lack good forwards, but I just can't see Kovalchuk wanting to play on a basement dwelling team for his comeback debut.

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

I think this is how the Kovalchuk situation will play if he doesn't want to play for New Jersey:
-- Kovalchuk will sign with Jersey, but threaten to "retire" again if Jersey doesn't trade him
-- Shero needs a tradeable contract (ie, 3 million for 2 years) from Kovy to make it happen.
-- Shero will refuse to sign him and vote for his ability to play in the league if Kovalchuk doesn't sign a tradeable contract
-- Shero will give Kovalchuk a NTC so that Kovy gets some control of where he plays
-- Shero gets a 1st round pick or whatever from the contract, which is better than nothing

Obviously Jersey needs Kovalchuk on that roster because they lack good forwards, but I just can't see Kovalchuk wanting to play on a basement dwelling team for his comeback debut.

Sorry but it will not happen like that.

IF Jersey does not want him in the line up, they will allow his agent to talk to other teams, and work out a sign trade.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

Sorry but it will not happen like that.

IF Jersey does not want him in the line up, they will allow his agent to talk to other teams, and work out a sign trade.

Yep, NJ will simply not let him sign elsewhere for nothing, that would be terrible management. They have no reason to approve Kovalchuk signing with another club, none.