[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[Reaper]

I just had a terrible premonition. With The Corral being torn down for BMO Centre expansion I could see the new arena being dubbed "The ________ Corral" based on whoever is the name sponsor of the building. I could also see the nickname of "The Barn" being pushed as a colloquialism from the get go. I'm expecting some exteriors to match the BMO Centre for appeasement purposes as well. This will not be a shiny Sci Fi future arena.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by New Era

You are aware that there is more to an arena footprint than just the actual arena? What about service area? You know, like when deliveries are made, or concert staging is done, or extra service equipment needs to be in place near the building? What about parking? You know, where the thousands of paying fans need to leave their vehicles when they come to the game? But hey, you can cut out arenas in photoshop and past them on a google maps screen capture, so that's all that matters. Don't need any of that other space that it appears every single arena in the world needs.

Yeah, I can totally see where the Bell Centre, wedged into downtown Montreal, would have over 300,000 square feet of such space more than even the Saddledome, in it's sea of undeveloped asphalt.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by New Era

You are aware that there is more to an arena footprint than just the actual arena? What about service area? You know, like when deliveries are made, or concert staging is done, or extra service equipment needs to be in place near the building? What about parking? You know, where the thousands of paying fans need to leave their vehicles when they come to the game? But hey, you can cut out arenas in photoshop and past them on a google maps screen capture, so that's all that matters. Don't need any of that other space that it appears every single arena in the world needs.

Those service functions you name are usually internal to the building. That's true everywhere

Parking - very little if any will be attached to the arena site itself - the beauty of the Stampede and downtowns in general is they have immense amounts of parking - and peak arena/event time is the opposite of business hours.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by New Era

You are aware that there is more to an arena footprint than just the actual arena? What about service area? You know, like when deliveries are made, or concert staging is done, or extra service equipment needs to be in place near the building? What about parking? You know, where the thousands of paying fans need to leave their vehicles when they come to the game? But hey, you can cut out arenas in photoshop and past them on a google maps screen capture, so that's all that matters. Don't need any of that other space that it appears every single arena in the world needs.

You are aware that there are tools that allow you to measure the area of map objects? The entire Bell Centre is a little over 18,700m2 including the Centennial Plaza. The 70,000m2 would include the Bell Centre, Windsor Station, St George's church and Place du Canada.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by New Era

You are aware that there is more to an arena footprint than just the actual arena? What about service area? You know, like when deliveries are made, or concert staging is done, or extra service equipment needs to be in place near the building? What about parking? You know, where the thousands of paying fans need to leave their vehicles when they come to the game? But hey, you can cut out arenas in photoshop and past them on a google maps screen capture, so that's all that matters. Don't need any of that other space that it appears every single arena in the world needs.

The new rink, in the suggested spot, would be a well-hit 3-wood from the Saddledome. What's going to happen to all that empty space where people going to Flames games park right now? And why wouldn't that be used for parking?

Fine and dandy if you don't like this spot for a new building, but my guess is that the powers that be aren't proposing this spot without considering things as obvious as access routes and parking.

I'm sure it didn't take you (or anyone else) long to consider it. I doubt the people putting forth the idea didn't think of it.

[Table 5]

If you can't find parking in Vic Park, you're sure as hell not going to find it anywhere else in inner-cty Calgary. That area is about as car-friendly as it gets...and much more so than CalgaryNEXT could've ever been.

The Vic Park location will also have:
• Walkable access to 3 separate LRT lines for transit riders in every corner of the city
• Access to main arteries like McLeod, 17th, Memorial and Deerfoot for cars
• A possible future train transit hub for the parasites
• Access to cycle track/bike paths for those who bike
• A healthy access to bus lines
• Would be surrounded by some of the densest neighbourhoods in Calgary like the Beltline, East Village, Inglewood, Ramsay, Bridgeland so plenty of people could actually walk to the arena.

Find me a location that allows as many Calgarians as possible to access the new stadium with as varied amount of transit options. I sure don't know of one.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well this "potential" has existed down there for what....40 years now?

What's going to change now?

What's going to change is that someone who knows what they are doing, and actually gets things done, is now involved. I don't have much faith in the Stampede Board or the Flames to develop anything properly either, but CMLC so far has a proven track record with high quality results. The East Village, Riverwalk, St. Patrick's Island...these are some of the most positive leaps forward in this city in decades. I'd expect the same high level of quality with this project.

[NiklasSundblad]

Originally Posted by New Era

Pretty tight. Looks like it's too small to me, and I seriously doubt that the Flames or the City want a building that come right up to the street on all four sides. Doesn't seem to fit the vision of anyone. Not even going to be close to the size of Rogers Place. C=NG?

This plot of land is plenty big to fit something the size of Edmonton's arena



It's can't be the same shape obviously, but Rogers Place easily fits onto this land despite it's inefficient shape.

Here is the bowl and ice portion of Rogers Place dropped onto the proposed lots. Even without rotating it so it fits in the best possible way, it's very easy to see how a world class building which would be comparable to the most spacious arenas in the league can easily fit here, while accommodating a strip of Stampede related development along Olympic Way like CMLC has proposed.

Spoiler!

VS Vancouver

Spoiler!

VS Toronto:

Spoiler!

And that's without even rotating the footprints so they best fit Calgary's N-S street alignment.

EDIT: A few more for fun

MSG:

Spoiler!

Montreal:

Spoiler!

Chicago:

Spoiler!

[GullFoss]

Would not be surprised to see CSEC make land purchases around the arena in advance of the deal.

[Fuzz]

So, just curious when they dropped CalgaryNEXT they didn't consider moving the whole thing to Vic Park. Is there a reason for that? They'd need the block to the east as well, but that looks doable. Shouldn't this be one of the options to consider?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Reaper

I just had a terrible premonition. With The Corral being torn down for BMO Centre expansion I could see the new arena being dubbed "The ________ Corral" based on whoever is the name sponsor of the building. I could also see the nickname of "The Barn" being pushed as a colloquialism from the get go. I'm expecting some exteriors to match the BMO Centre for appeasement purposes as well. This will not be a shiny Sci Fi future arena.

It would represent a great repeat of history though, because the public absolutely hated the name "Stampede Corral" when that building opened. So much so that some of the media refused to call the arena by name until the Stampeders threatened to pull media credentials.

[TheFlamesVan]

No population, hates the history their city was built on, more than Calgarians.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

It would represent a great repeat of history though, because the public absolutely hated the name "Stampede Corral" when that building opened. So much so that some of the media refused to call the arena by name until the Stampeders threatened to pull media credentials.

Huh. I didn't know that. I wonder why they didn't like it. It's not like "Saddledome", which was a made-up word that nobody liked either but everyone came around to.

I hope the new one gets called "The _______ Corral". It's unique at the very least.

Practically every rink is called "Center" or "Arena", and we can't call it "Place" for obvious reasons. I guess whoever leases the naming rights will have a say in the matter.

[Erick Estrada]

I wonder if Rogers ponies up the same sort of cash they gave the Oilers for the naming rights. I can't imagine two Rogers named arena's in one province.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Huh. I didn't know that. I wonder why they didn't like it. It's not like "Saddledome", which was a made-up word that nobody liked either but everyone came around to.

I hope the new one gets called "The _______ Corral". It's unique at the very least.

Practically every rink is called "Center" or "Arena", and we can't call it "Place" for obvious reasons. I guess whoever leases the naming rights will have a say in the matter.

For the same reasons some people still like to crap all over Stampede now - They didn't like the "hick town" connotations. Also, corrals tend to stink.

As far as the Saddledome name goes, the architects didn't even think about the shape of the roof being saddle-like. But the public did. Two thirds of the entries for a 'name the building' contest included the word "saddle".

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I wonder if Rogers ponies up the same sort of cash they gave the Oilers for the naming rights. I can't imagine two Rogers named arena's in one province.

I would think Telus or Westjet might jump at the chance for naming rights.

[GioforPM]

I don't recall any upset over the name of the Corral. Then again, I wasn't born in 1950

If you are talking about when the Flames started, I still don't recall it. I was only 18 or so when the Flames played there. Frankly, in my circles, the Saddledome was a more ridiculed name.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Would not be surprised to see CSEC make land purchases around the arena in advance of the deal.

I would be really surprised if they did. Which lots are available that would make sense? Victoria Park is not a severely neglected section of town and is pretty well spoken for. It is not comparable to the district Edmonton revitalized.


* The Stampede has spoken for the land east and west of the site.

* The Block to the North East is owned by Lamb Dev Corp where they have "The Orchard" planned

Spoiler!

* The block to the North West is fully complete. (Arriva / Guardian)

Spoiler!

* The warehouse district is protected. Everyone is aware of the Remington Rail yards site (private with no official plans). The East Village is well on it's way with most of the properties snapped up already.


* The only site I am unsure of is the block directly North.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by TheFlamesVan

No population, hates the history their city was built on, more than Calgarians.

What a load of crap. There's plenty of examples of how history is preserved in this city, particularly from an infrastructure perspective. The Stampede is an aggressively promoted and commercialized homage to this area's history as well. Combine that with the year-round acceptable 'western cowboy culture' that permeates this city and ways in which we promote it, Calgary shoves history down people's throats more than many other cities.

Also, just because something is historic doesn't mean it need preserving. The Corral is outdated, underused, and, really, should be removed to make way for more modern facilities.

[Strange Brew]

The Corral has great memories for me and I attended my first NHL playoff game in that building. And great memories of the Calgary Cowboys.

Personally I think its kind of a cool name and would love to see it stick around. But I also recall being tired of the constant "Western" references from when I lived in Calgary.