I think the mistake some people make is that this is a "left vs. right" or "liberal vs. conservative", or even a "Democrat vs. Republican" debate (although the many of the latter are using him to draw their lines in the sand. Maybe we are seeing party value shifts similar to the late 1800s and early 1900s, and the republicans are redefining their values.
Trump is not really a conservative, nor does he show classical Republican morals. Simply put, he is an opportunistic tycoon with some elements of corporatism and fascism.
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Take that with a grain of salt as self-reporting about voting history is notoriously inaccurate. That said, regardless it does suggest that there's little upside in trying to court Trump supporters or coddle their feelings. There is arguably much more upside for liberals in engaging (particularly young) non-voters than there is in trying to flip Trump supporters to democrat.
That 2% would have made the difference. In Pennsylvania the margin was 42,292. Two percent of Trump votes equates to 59,415 votes. Clinton carries Pennsylvania. In Wisconsin the margin was 22,748. Two percent of Trump votes equates to 28,105 votes. Clinton carries Wisconsin. In Michigan the margin was 10,292. Two percent of Trump votes equates to 45,509 votes. Clinton carries Michigan.
That's how tight this election was, and how little it would have taken for Trump to lose.
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Take that with a grain of salt as self-reporting about voting history is notoriously inaccurate. That said, regardless it does suggest that there's little upside in trying to court Trump supporters or coddle their feelings. There is arguably much more upside for liberals in engaging (particularly young) non-voters than there is in trying to flip Trump supporters to democrat.
Totally agree with this. Upside is grabbing more of the center and inspiring non-voters - like what they're trying to do for Georgia.
Best strategy is to ignore them when they pretend to enter polite discourse, but all they can spout is talking points. We wasted 50 pages debating with Texas Flames Fan in good faith, when we knew that it wasn't going anywhere from page 1.
Efforts should be spent to promote policies, rather than just hammering home that Trump is a buffoon. I think by this point, anyone that uses both halves of their brain realizes that Trump golfs a lot. We don't need national headlines every week about it. Focus on the fact that he's done nothing, focus on what Democrats can do for the people.
Totally agree with this. Upside is grabbing more of the center and inspiring non-voters - like what they're trying to do for Georgia.
Completely agree with this.
Quote:
Efforts should be spent to promote policies, rather than just hammering home that Trump is a buffoon. I think by this point, anyone that uses both halves of their brain realizes that Trump golfs a lot. We don't need national headlines every week about it. Focus on the fact that he's done nothing, focus on what Democrats can do for the people.
Completely disagree with this. People don't care about policies. For the vast majority of Americans they don't care about policy. They get confused by policy and it frustrates them. The second you start focusing on policy is the second you start seeing voters looking for more simplistic explanations of how things affect their lives.
You want to sway American voters you need to promote the values your Party identifies with, and show how those values are congruent with the voter's values. Americans care about things that directly impact them, but they acknowledge they don't need to know anything about how something operates to have to work in their favor. Most Americans make their voting decisions on whether candidate A espouses values more similar than their own compared to candidate B. The Democrats need to get out in front of the electorate and state what their values are, and just how those values will be represented in Washington.
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By all accounts Trumps female twin in France (Marine Le Pen) will be heading to the 2nd election in May. This could be an enormous earthquake because if she wins you can say goodbye to the european union.
By all accounts Trumps female twin in France (Marine Le Pen) will be heading to the 2nd election in May. This could be an enormous earthquake because if she wins you can say goodbye to the european union.
From what I understand it will likely that the National Front will have a tough go in the second round as everyone will gang up on them
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Completely disagree with this. People don't care about policies. For the vast majority of Americans they don't care about policy. They get confused by policy and it frustrates them. The second you start focusing on policy is the second you start seeing voters looking for more simplistic explanations of how things affect their lives.
You want to sway American voters you need to promote the values your Party identifies with, and show how those values are congruent with the voter's values. Americans care about things that directly impact them, but they acknowledge they don't need to know anything about how something operates to have to work in their favor. Most Americans make their voting decisions on whether candidate A espouses values more similar than their own compared to candidate B. The Democrats need to get out in front of the electorate and state what their values are, and just how those values will be represented in Washington.
Agreed.... Sadly, in this day and age, you are not going to move the needle much based on policy discussions.
In the debates, I thought that Hillary killed Trump on any and every discussion that had to do with policy... Hillary was a bit of a wonk, which definitely helped with the voters that vote based on having a qualified candidate...
But once Trump did something or said something outrageous, Trump's base would get aroused, because he was so "folksy" and "spoke his mind"... it was actually pretty funny... Trump's strategy was positively Black Mirror or Homeresque... does this look familiar?
By all accounts Trumps female twin in France (Marine Le Pen) will be heading to the 2nd election in May. This could be an enormous earthquake because if she wins you can say goodbye to the european union.
Slim slim chance she wins. They are a very radical party and make Trump's policies look like a kitten. Macron is central enough he'll collect the other votes. He's already getting other party leaders throwing him their support. Le Pen is yuuugely polarising.
Edit: Fillon, the number 3 candidate just conceded and threw his support to Macron. He represents about 20% of voters.
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In the debates, I thought that Hillary killed Trump on any and every discussion that had to do with policy
Well she did have all the questions in advance so she was able to give a memorized speech for an answer. I still think she lost all the debates which makes this even more sad and pathetic.
You want to sway American voters you need to promote the values your Party identifies with, and show how those values are congruent with the voter's values. Americans care about things that directly impact them, but they acknowledge they don't need to know anything about how something operates to have to work in their favor. Most Americans make their voting decisions on whether candidate A espouses values more similar than their own compared to candidate B. The Democrats need to get out in front of the electorate and state what their values are, and just how those values will be represented in Washington.
The people that voted based on values would have voted the same way, more or less, regardless of who ran. The reason Trump won is because he pandered to every audience he saw. He told the coal miners he'd bring their jobs back. He told the car makers he'd bring their jobs back. He told the rust belt that he'd bring manufacturing back. He lied to every audience he spoke and many fell for it. You can call them stupid, desperate or intentionally obtuse. Meanwhile Clinton also pandered but not nearly to the same degree. Sadly, Trump is still lying and even more sadly is folks are still falling for it.
When people ask why politicians lie, this is why they lie. The only one's to blame for dishonest politicians are TFF and others like him that reward liars and cons.
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The president reiterated a variation of one of his key campaign promises on Sunday, tweeting that Mexico would pay for the wall Trump wants to build across the border between the southern United States and Mexico.
"Eventually, but at a later date so we can get started early, Mexico will be paying, in some form, for the badly needed border wall," Trump tweeted.
Well she did have all the questions in advance so she was able to give a memorized speech for an answer. I still think she lost all the debates which makes this even more sad and pathetic.
lol... what? for two questions that Donna Brazile provided...better check your facts again
Your boy Trump couldn't answer questions on policy even remotely coherently... and when that happened he appealed to his base's by spouting off lies, falsehoods, ad hominem attacks and empty promises.
I thought she won the debates based on substance...Trump's base attention span is more tuned to like clown shows, so his 'hot takes' stuck in their heads...
Last edited by oldschoolcalgary; 04-23-2017 at 05:59 PM.
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