[News] With the 21st overall pick Flames select C Mark Jankowski

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by chockfullofgoodness

Backlund just turned 28 and is just entering his prime. He's in the Selke conversation FFS! He is EXACTLY the kind of player this team should keep. When the hell did 28 become old?

Because you're signing him at 30, and you're signing him to likely a retirement contract. Like it or not, 30 is on the downslope of a player's career. You can try and ignore that reality, but that is the reality. When you're managing a team you can't allow fandom to get in the way. Backlund is a great fit on this team, right now, but how will he fit in the future? That is the challenge that the GM has to project and make a call as to how the player fits in the budget.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by New Era

Anything more than $4.5 you have to let him go. He's a quasi-3rd liner/2nd liner and you can't afford more than $4.5 for a player like that. I like Backlund, but he is what he is. You do not overpay lower half of the lineup players and think it will not come back to hurt you with the guys you think will be top end talent. I know there are plenty of Backlund supporters out there, but you have to be realistic as to what his talent level is, and he has to be paid at that level. If you overpay him at $5.5M, what happens when Bennett, or any number of players, steps up and surpasses him? That completely ####s the pay structure. You can't pay a 3rd line center that much, just like you can't pay Matt Stajan $4M+ to be a 4th line center and expect to challenge for anything of consequence. Budget is budget. Backlund is one of those players you have to be extremely careful about because he isn't a solid fit anywhere and his salary could be very damaging.

What the heck are you talking about with this?? They're challenging for a better position in the playoffs.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Karl

What the heck are you talking about with this?? They're challenging for a better position in the playoffs.

Which really isn't anything of consequence. I know you're a Leaf fan and just making the playoffs is a massive accomplishment, but there is a major difference between just making the playoffs and being a contender. The Flames are a team that is a bottom end playoff team, but they have some talent challenges. Those talent challenges are ####-blocked by guys like Stajan and Wideman. You can't stack that much money in the lowest realms of the lineup and think you are a serious contender.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by New Era

Anything more than $4.5 you have to let him go. He's a quasi-3rd liner/2nd liner and you can't afford more than $4.5 for a player like that. I like Backlund, but he is what he is. You do not overpay lower half of the lineup players and think it will not come back to hurt you with the guys you think will be top end talent. I know there are plenty of Backlund supporters out there, but you have to be realistic as to what his talent level is, and he has to be paid at that level. If you overpay him at $5.5M, what happens when Bennett, or any number of players, steps up and surpasses him? That completely ####s the pay structure. You can't pay a 3rd line center that much, just like you can't pay Matt Stajan $4M+ to be a 4th line center and expect to challenge for anything of consequence. Budget is budget. Backlund is one of those players you have to be extremely careful about because he isn't a solid fit anywhere and his salary could be very damaging.

By what possible measure is Backlund a "lower half of the lineup" player?

Look, I have been waiting for him to drop off for a couple years now...its simply not going to happen. I was one who wanted him dealt off the team as recently as last season.

I was wrong. Dead wrong. He is an elite defensive center in the NHL who by any metric is among the games best. There is just no way to argue it at this point.

He will get WAY more than 4.5 million if he wants.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by New Era

Which really isn't anything of consequence

You're dead wrong.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by transplant99

By what possible measure is Backlund a "lower half of the lineup" player?

Look, I have been waiting for him to drop off for a couple years now...its simply not going to happen. I was one who wanted him dealt off the team as recently as last season.

I was wrong. Dead wrong. He is an elite defensive center in the NHL who by any metric is among the games best. There is just no way to argue it at this point.

He will get WAY more than 4.5 million if he wants.

You're supposedly a hockey guy. How do you fit Backlund into the budget? Be serious about this. Put your budget hat on. Where does he fit? Monahan is your number one. Bennett is the guy you hope steps up to be your number two at worst. If you sign Backlund to a long term contract at $5.5M, you can kiss Bennett goodbye. Plain and simple. Run the numbers. I've posted this numerous times, and it is highly accurate.

Every dollar overpaid to one player has to come out of the budget elsewhere. You really need to see the numbers in action to get a better understanding of what a few dollars here and there means. Take a $70M budget as an example, which is a fair number to use considering the cap and the space you need for call-ups for injuries and such. I would think a healthy budget breakdown is going to look like $40M on forwards, $24M on defense, and $6M on goaltending. So something like this, taking names out the mix.

$7M-$7M-$5M
$3M-$5M-$3M
$2M-$3M-$2M
$1M-$1M-$1M
$.75M-$.75M

$7M-$5M
$4M-$3M
$2M-$1.5M
.75M

$5M
$1M


Where does Backlund fit without screwing the team over when Bennett steps up?

[Roof-Daddy]

I'm having Where RU Chris O'Sullivan flash backs.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by New Era

Anything more than $4.5 you have to let him go. He's a quasi-3rd liner/2nd liner and you can't afford more than $4.5 for a player like that. I like Backlund, but he is what he is. You do not overpay lower half of the lineup players and think it will not come back to hurt you with the guys you think will be top end talent. I know there are plenty of Backlund supporters out there, but you have to be realistic as to what his talent level is, and he has to be paid at that level. If you overpay him at $5.5M, what happens when Bennett, or any number of players, steps up and surpasses him? That completely ####s the pay structure. You can't pay a 3rd line center that much, just like you can't pay Matt Stajan $4M+ to be a 4th line center and expect to challenge for anything of consequence. Budget is budget. Backlund is one of those players you have to be extremely careful about because he isn't a solid fit anywhere and his salary could be very damaging.

Name all the 3rd line Cs that are on pace for 20+ goals and 55 points this season. Then trim the list to include only those that have elite possession numbers.

You seem to have no idea what 3rd line means.

Also, you don't win by moving out your best players and being in a constant rebuild. You win by having a solid core.

And a big part of a winning formula is having an elite defensive C.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by New Era

You're supposedly a hockey guy. How do you fit Backlund into the budget? Be serious about this. Put your budget hat on. Where does he fit? Monahan is your number one. Bennett is the guy you hope steps up to be your number two at worst. If you sign Backlund to a ling term contract at $5.5M, you can kiss Bennett goodbye. Plain and simple. Run the numbers. I've posted this numerous times, and it is highly accurate.

Every dollar overpaid to one player has to come out of the budget elsewhere. You really need to see the numbers in action to get a better understanding of what a few dollars here and there means. Take a $70M budget as an example, which is a fair number to use considering the cap and the space you need for call-ups for injuries and such. I would think a healthy budget breakdown is going to look like $40M on forwards, $24M on defense, and $6M on goaltending. So something like this, taking names out the mix.

$7M-$7M-$5M
$3M-$5M-$3M
$2M-$3M-$2M
$1M-$1M-$1M
$.75M-$.75M

$7M-$5M
$4M-$3M
$2M-$1.5M
.75M

$5M
$1M


Where does Backlund fit without screwing the team over when Bennett steps up?

Budget? That has nothing to do with what you are saying in that Backlund is a 3rd line C....he just isnt that guy any longer.


As for Bennett...Im not sure he will ever be a 2nd line C in this league. I think he can be, but nothing thus far has indicated such leap in play and in fact its starting to look like he is a much better winger.

Backlund is going to get paid...whether it be in Calgary or elsewhere. If you can keep him at 5 a year...thats a freaking steal as i do believe he could fetch much much more on the open market which is something the team needs to avoid at all costs. If they arent re-signing him they would need to trade him this summer...and i just dont see that happening.

[GettinIggyWithIt]

^^ Exactly you worry about Bennett WHEN he steps up. Playing a game of ifs isn't the way to build a competitive hockey team. Neither Jankowski nor Bennett have shown they can take Backlund's role. When that happens - you have a good problem and you address it.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by New Era

You're supposedly a hockey guy. How do you fit Backlund into the budget? Be serious about this. Put your budget hat on. Where does he fit? Monahan is your number one. Bennett is the guy you hope steps up to be your number two at worst. If you sign Backlund to a long term contract at $5.5M, you can kiss Bennett goodbye. Plain and simple. Run the numbers. I've posted this numerous times, and it is highly accurate.

Every dollar overpaid to one player has to come out of the budget elsewhere. You really need to see the numbers in action to get a better understanding of what a few dollars here and there means. Take a $70M budget as an example, which is a fair number to use considering the cap and the space you need for call-ups for injuries and such. I would think a healthy budget breakdown is going to look like $40M on forwards, $24M on defense, and $6M on goaltending. So something like this, taking names out the mix.

$7M-$7M-$5M
$3M-$5M-$3M
$2M-$3M-$2M
$1M-$1M-$1M
$.75M-$.75M

$7M-$5M
$4M-$3M
$2M-$1.5M
.75M

$5M
$1M


Where does Backlund fit without screwing the team over when Bennett steps up?

Seriously? Screwing up the team when Bennett steps up? Lol lets wait until he actually steps up until we decide on trading our best player. Yes, he's without a doubt our most important player.

Bennett still needs a lot of time and work and isn't replacing Backlund anytime soon or most likely ever.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by New Era

You're supposedly a hockey guy. How do you fit Backlund into the budget? Be serious about this. Put your budget hat on. Where does he fit? Monahan is your number one. Bennett is the guy you hope steps up to be your number two at worst. If you sign Backlund to a long term contract at $5.5M, you can kiss Bennett goodbye. Plain and simple. Run the numbers. I've posted this numerous times, and it is highly accurate.

Every dollar overpaid to one player has to come out of the budget elsewhere. You really need to see the numbers in action to get a better understanding of what a few dollars here and there means. Take a $70M budget as an example, which is a fair number to use considering the cap and the space you need for call-ups for injuries and such. I would think a healthy budget breakdown is going to look like $40M on forwards, $24M on defense, and $6M on goaltending. So something like this, taking names out the mix.

$7M-$7M-$5M
$3M-$5M-$3M
$2M-$3M-$2M
$1M-$1M-$1M
$.75M-$.75M

$7M-$5M
$4M-$3M
$2M-$1.5M
.75M

$5M
$1M


Where does Backlund fit without screwing the team over when Bennett steps up?

Backlund is currently the team's best player and in terms of contributing towards winning I don't think it's even close. You fit him.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Anything more than $4.5 you have to let him go. He's a quasi-3rd liner/2nd liner

This is where I stopped reading.

Pick me up a sandwich while you're clearly out to lunch.

[calgaryblood]

Bennett hasn't even shown he can replace Stajan yet so let's calm our tits. Hopefully he lives up to the hype but when he does you can worry about it. My head hurts.

[Beninho]

Going to kind of try and bring this thread back to talking about Jankowski, What a great season he is having. Did not think he was gonna be this good offensively but that is probably due to the very defensive system he played in college for all 4 years. Chances he plays in the playoffs?? Would love to see him and Bennett alternate the center position.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Going to kind of try and bring this thread back to talking about Jankowski, What a great season he is having. Did not think he was gonna be this good offensively but that is probably due to the very defensive system he played in college for all 4 years. Chances he plays in the playoffs?? Would love to see him and Bennett alternate the center position.

Please stay on topic. Jankowski threads are never about Jankowski, you should know this by now.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by New Era

Anything more than $4.5 you have to let him go. He's a quasi-3rd liner/2nd liner and you can't afford more than $4.5 for a player like that. I like Backlund, but he is what he is. You do not overpay lower half of the lineup players and think it will not come back to hurt you with the guys you think will be top end talent. I know there are plenty of Backlund supporters out there, but you have to be realistic as to what his talent level is, and he has to be paid at that level. If you overpay him at $5.5M, what happens when Bennett, or any number of players, steps up and surpasses him? That completely ####s the pay structure. You can't pay a 3rd line center that much, just like you can't pay Matt Stajan $4M+ to be a 4th line center and expect to challenge for anything of consequence. Budget is budget. Backlund is one of those players you have to be extremely careful about because he isn't a solid fit anywhere and his salary could be very damaging.

Except Matt Stajan has never driven a line the way Backlund has for going on three years now.

Backlund is not a 3rd line centre, he's a fringe #1.

[devo22]

Backlund is 2nd in goals, 3rd in assists, 3rd in points and 3rd in TOI among Flames forwards. Still calling him a 3rd line center and a "lower half of the lineup player" is an insult to his abilities and his impact on this hockey team.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by New Era

You're supposedly a hockey guy. How do you fit Backlund into the budget? Be serious about this. Put your budget hat on. Where does he fit? Monahan is your number one. Bennett is the guy you hope steps up to be your number two at worst. If you sign Backlund to a long term contract at $5.5M, you can kiss Bennett goodbye. Plain and simple. Run the numbers. I've posted this numerous times, and it is highly accurate.

Every dollar overpaid to one player has to come out of the budget elsewhere. You really need to see the numbers in action to get a better understanding of what a few dollars here and there means. Take a $70M budget as an example, which is a fair number to use considering the cap and the space you need for call-ups for injuries and such. I would think a healthy budget breakdown is going to look like $40M on forwards, $24M on defense, and $6M on goaltending. So something like this, taking names out the mix.

$7M-$7M-$5M
$3M-$5M-$3M
$2M-$3M-$2M
$1M-$1M-$1M
$.75M-$.75M

$7M-$5M
$4M-$3M
$2M-$1.5M
.75M

$5M
$1M


Where does Backlund fit without screwing the team over when Bennett steps up?

When is it ever that simple? I appreciate the effort you've gone to create this template, but I'd venture to guess no team in the NHL has such a rigid & convenient salary structure. Most teams have some outlier somewhere in the line-up; overpaying some veteran on their 4th line, or they have some relic back-up who costs a fortune, or a 1st line sniper on an ELC. If only it could be so simple, but it never is. Discarding a prime-aged forward simply because he may not fit your template is not the way to build a perennial contender.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

Bennett is the guy you hope steps up to be your number two at worst. If you sign Backlund to a long term contract at $5.5M, you can kiss Bennett goodbye.

We don't know what Bennett is going to become. At this point, I'd be quite happy if he developed into as good a player as Backlund. But it's no guarantee. As others have said, if he does develop into a top-2 centre, then you have a good kind of problem on your hands. Unless Treliving bucks his track record and overpays Backlund, he'll be a very tradeable asset.

Creating a gaping hole on the lineup to avoid a potential problem down the road doesn't make sense.