American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS (Archive)

[Illuminaughty]

There's good things with Obamacare????? No repeal and replace is the best option to stop the bleeding. Trumpcare sucks too, for what it's worth.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

Bro don't you know the answer to all of societies problems is more government? This coming from a guy that apparently worked in the government, so trust New Era, he would know.

The answer is good government. Proper federation would make things work much better. If the feds would create policy for states to follow, and then regulate accordingly, things would work just fine. The feds do too much in some regards, and not enough in others. The states replicate costly departments and services that should be handled at the federal level. The states and the feds need to be much more cooperative in their governance efforts. That is how you fix the problem of problem of bad government.

Obamacare was terrible, the Dems have to own that one and not deflect blame which is their go to move.

Right. The Republicans had nothing to do with it at all. They weren't the ones obstructing and negotiating in bad faith.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

There's good things with Obamacare????? No repeal and replace is the best option to stop the bleeding. Trumpcare sucks too, for what it's worth.

"I don't like this, but I also don't like this other thing that won't fix the problems of the thing I don't like, so I'll take the thing I don't like and replace it with the thing I don't like... thanks President _____!"

America in a nutshell.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

"Obamacare" (ACA) was better than what it replaced, and its better than what has been proposed, but it's not ideal.

You're confusing "Obamacare" with "American healthcare in general"

How much experience using Obamacare did you have on Vancouver Island, might I ask?

What does my personal experience with Obamacare have to do with anything? Pssst Vancouver Island is not part of the States. I could tell you about my personal experience with our system is, but that's anecdotal and likely has little relevance.

How was it better? Name three good things about Obamacare.

[calgarybornnraised]

Please put Illuminaughty and Texas flames fan on ignore.

It brings the whole site down, they don't care and won't change. When they are ignored they won't have anyone to feed their pretend egos.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by New Era

The answer is good government. Proper federation would make things work much better. If the feds would create policy for states to follow, and then regulate accordingly, things would work just fine. The feds do too much in some regards, and not enough in others. The states replicate costly departments and services that should be handled at the federal level. The states and the feds need to be much more cooperative in their governance efforts. That is how you fix the problem of problem of bad government.



Right. The Republicans had nothing to do with it at all. They weren't the ones obstructing and negotiating in bad faith.

I agree with some of that, but what is good government? Is more government the right dog for the hunt? Increase competition across State lines, heck even look at outsourcing for insurance if you need to. Again the biggest problem is the price fixing by big money interests.

Yeah Trump won't likely address it either, and every plan is doomed to fail until somebody does.

The Republicans aren't required to make things easy for the Dems, and vice versa. The Dems should have proposed a better plan.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by calgarybornnraised

Please put Illuminaughty and Texas flames fan on ignore.

It brings the whole site down, they don't care and won't change. When they are ignored they won't have anyone to feed their pretend egos.

That is so weak dude. You should be able to argue your position, not cry foul cuz somebody doesn't share your views. Censorship is weak tactic of the left.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

What does my personal experience with Obamacare have to do with anything? Pssst Vancouver Island is not part of the States. I could tell you about my personal experience with our system is, but that's anecdotal and likely has little relevance.

How was it better? Name three good things about Obamacare.

1) No longer allowing insurance companies to deny someone based on a pre-existing condition.
2) Removing lifetime insurance caps.
3) Ensuring that pre-natal care is covered by insurance.
4) Making birth control more accessible.
5) Preventing insurance company execs from taking excessive tax breaks on their bonuses.
6) Expanded Medicaid, providing insurance for millions who previously didn't have it.

The ACA is far, far from perfect. It needs to be fixed.

That said, the Republican replacement--this is a GOP replacement, make sure Trump doesn't get all the credit/blame for this, the entire GOP is responsible for this disaster--is a massive step in the wrong direction.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

Name three good things about Obamacare.

How about 3x3?

1. Removes the pre-existing condition restrictions for people.

2. Provides actual insurance and long-term healthcare coverage/services for millions of people who are too poor to afford such care.

3. Extended coverage for young people until they have established themselves so they can afford insurance.

4. Prescription coverage for seniors was greatly improved, reducing costs of medications for people on fixed incomes, eliminating the doughnut hole.

5. Gave patients an option for services focused on preventative care rather than just pushing pills.

6. Greatly improved health services for women.

7. 30 million people who didn't have health insurance finally got insurance.

8. End of minimums as far as coverage goes.

9. Expansion of Medicaid and Medicare.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

What does my personal experience with Obamacare have to do with anything? Pssst Vancouver Island is not part of the States. I could tell you about my personal experience with our system is, but that's anecdotal and likely has little relevance.

How was it better? Name three good things about Obamacare.

Just making sure.

1. Expanded ability for people who are poor or have pre-existing conditions to get coverage (it effectively lowered the rate of people who were uninsured)
2. Expanded coverage: insurance companies are required to cover a wider array of illnesses and their treatments
3. Actual medical bills have been capped

And for good measure, three bad things:

1. Costs for ACA were well over and above what was predicted, and people lost ability to pay for weak insurance coverage
2. Some big insurers pulled out, which lowered competition and increased rates
3. Too many tax exemptions for people who refuse to buy coverage, making the tax they're supposed to be paying to help the system completely useless

I don't think anyone has argued that ACA is the perfect solution and has fixed all the problems, but it fixed more problems than it created, and Trumpcare doesn't seem poised to fix anything at all, so I'm really confused on what a poster like Texas is excited about.

Yay America perpetually getting worse as it rides the poor into the ground, I guess? Make America Sick Again.

[calgarybornnraised]

nm

[photon]

The bill is terrible, even from a pie-in-the-sky Republican point of view, mostly because it was thrown together ad hoc when Congress figured out they couldn't just defund the ACA and come back replace it at their leisure after they moved on to tax reform. That and they're trying to shoehorn it through the wrong legislative mechanism. The bill isn't driven by good outcomes for people, it's driven by legislative clockwork.

I doubt it'll matter it doesn't look like it's going to have the votes.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I agree with some of that, but what is good government?

Governance that address the common needs of all citizens, fairly and judiciously.

Is more government the right dog for the hunt?

No. Less government is better. That is why good federated systems are needed. When you have 50 states you need to centralize certain institutions because they address problems affecting more than one state simultaneously. If you don't you bloat state government and cause problems between states. Can you imagine the nightmare of trying to regulate pollution on the Mississippi river if left to the states? 10 states having their own governing body to deal with the issue? Instead of creating this nightmare you federate the issue and follow the governance agreed to by your state representatives.

Increase competition across State lines, heck even look at outsourcing for insurance if you need to. Again the biggest problem is the price fixing by big money interests.

This is such noise. Being able to buy insurance from New Mexico is not going to make a bit of difference for someone who lives in Texas or Arizona. Health insurance is provided by massive corporations who have the same plans all across the country. This stuff of being able to buy across state lines is smoke and mirrors. Competition between states is irrelevant when we're talking about multi-national corporations providing products and services.

Yeah Trump won't likely address it either, and every plan is doomed to fail until somebody does.

I don't even understand what this means???

The Republicans aren't required to make things easy for the Dems, and vice versa. The Dems should have proposed a better plan.

Actually, the two parties are supposed to cooperate. They both take an oath of office to work for the best interests of their constituents - all constituents - regardless of party affiliation. They are supposed to be working to find solutions to problems, not digging their heels in and acting like petulant children. At least that's what the constitution says, and what their oath of office states.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

No privatized prisons is messed up and that should absolutely be handled by by the government. It's basically indentured servitude.

No I don't think healthcare is a right that should be provided by the government. Every citizen should have the freedom to choose the healthcare that they would like, and not be forced to pay into something that will be expensive and poor quality, or forced to foot the bill for some unproductive person in society. The governments only purpose should be to provide and maintain the human rights and liberties for it's citizens. That's it.

Then you would expect the American system to outperform comparable systems at a lower cost...but the data shows the exact opposite. Americans have worse health outcomes and pay more TAX DOLLARS than comparable systems. Americans are getting terrible value and a libertarian system won't improve it.

Ask yourself this...would an average Canadian or European swap their coverage for an American plan? No? Then why do you think it's any good?

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Texas Flames Fan

49% increase in one year is shocking. If you want to blame the republicans for Obamacare go for it. I don't care who you blame. The point is what we have now doesn't work and needs to be repealed and replaced. Even you can admit that right?

So...why are the tax breaks for the wealthy a smart part of Trumpcare? Tell me how that improves the ACA?

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

That is so weak dude. You should be able to argue your position, not cry foul cuz somebody doesn't share your views. Censorship is weak tactic of the left.

Fair point by Illuminaughty

...if anything is needed to turn the state around it is the ability to listen to the other side and not be bigoted. The left and right are both becoming more prone to tune out anything that they feel doesn't line up with their preconceived notions. (And social media and internet news is making it even worse by allowing information flows that support the right/left feedback loop)

[_Q_]

What I've learned from living in America is that Americans generally don't have opinions. They just go along with what their party of choice tells them is the opinion of the day. Obviously Obamacare is a disaster for half of Americans, not because of any particular reason, but because Republicans branded it as such from the get go.

This is not just a Republican issue, Democrats are equally as guilty of this as well.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

Fair point by Illuminaughty

...if anything is needed to turn the state around it is the ability to listen to the other side and not be bigoted.

No. Totally disagree. There are people who just simply need to be ignored, and then defeated politically.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by driveway

No. Totally disagree. There are people who just simply need to be ignored, and then defeated politically.

Do whatever you want...it just might be more counterproductive than you think

[Senator Clay Davis]

As the dossier becomes more and more believable, we're closing in on the piss tape



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...ment/99483224/