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Old 03-21-2017, 05:07 PM   #6441
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How different is what was originally proposed as the ACA vs what they ended up with after?
They had to drop the death panels
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:50 PM   #6442
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Democrats are calling to delay the confirmation of Trump's Supreme Court pick Gorsuch until the end of the Russia-Trump probe. Good on them as this position is for life. It would be far better to be safe and wait for the results. Better excuse for delaying a pick compared to it being the "last year of the president's term"

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Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer called for a delay of Supreme Court nominee Neil Gorsuch’s confirmation Tuesday given the ongoing FBI investigation into potential collusion between President Donald Trump’s campaign and Russian officials.

“You can bet, if the shoe were on the other foot and a Democratic president was under investigation by the FBI, the Republicans would be howling at the moon about filling a Supreme Court seat in such circumstances,” Schumer said on the floor.

His call was later echoed by Massachusetts Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren, who tweeted that FBI Director James Comey "testified @realDonaldTrump's campaign is under investigation for collusion with Russia. Lifetime court appointments can wait."

The emerging Democratic demand is highly unlikely to gain traction with Senate GOP leaders, who are planning a vote on Gorsuch early next month. But the move illustrates Schumer's interest in using the stain of an FBI probe to undercut the rest of Trump’s agenda and echoes entreaties by liberal groups that have pressured Democrats to filibuster Gorsuch.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...ch-vote-236315
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:54 PM   #6443
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Granted, I may be wrong on a wide scale since this is strictly based off personal experience, but doesn't our system work on a priority basis? A child diagnosed with cancer in my experience gets treatment as soon as possible, while a hip replacement might take months to fix.

I think patients with a potentially fatal condition get in and get treatment quite quickly.

I just used that as an example without any first hand experience to be honest. If you think about the logical situation where

1) Something concerning requires a visit to a family Dr., some people have them, some people don't. A lot of Dr's don't spend an appropriate amount of time with patients to diagnose properly, this is where the multiple visit's for some cancer patients comes into play.

2) Dr. finds something concerning and refers for more tests such as MRI, ultrasound, x-ray etc. This can be done fairly quickly in most major centers in Alberta I find, but in my experience, it can be done in a few days or a week.

3) Follow up appointment or a referral to specialist, now that can take some time depending on scenario.

4) See specialist, get diagnoses and than schedule for surgery. Sometimes the OR is booked, sometimes its not but in our system there is definitely an under utilization of our healthcare assets such as OR's outside of normal hours.

Now let's say the above scenario takes 3 weeks, which would be very quick in my opinion. If there was a chance to shave a week or 10 days off, what would that be worth to someone? Perhaps the end result doesn't affect anything either way but in some cases it probably does.

There are other issues above and beyond what I mentioned above. A lot of the issues with the painkiller crisis we have can be attributed to people who have become hooked on them as a result of injury. An injury requiring a referral and a surgery along with multi-month wait, sometimes as long as a year and a half. If all you can do is manage severe pain with painkillers, it's troubling the long wait.

I have also had clients who needed to redeem investments in order to have surgery in the US. A client paid about $15 k for what was deemed a medium surgery down in Florida. She sad her experience was outstanding with the surgeons personal phone number in case of anything. Although she wasn't in a situation where her life was in danger, the $15k she spent improved her quality of life to no return. She wasn't wealthy but she indicated for her it was money well spent.

Like I said earlier, there are good and bad stories on both sides, even within the exact same scenario.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:03 PM   #6444
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Make America Great Again!
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:09 PM   #6445
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Democrats are calling to delay the confirmation of Trump's Supreme Court pick Gorsuch until the end of the Russia-Trump probe. Good on them as this position is for life. It would be far better to be safe and wait for the results. Better excuse for delaying a pick compared to it being the "last year of the president's term"
The one I like is they should just say that an outgoing president should not be choosing SC judges, exactly what the repubs said. Since Trump is already campaigning for 2020, he is in effect an outgoing president.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:54 PM   #6446
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Hmmmmm, that's an interesting take. I have a sibling who was seen by their dentist and a questionable mass was discovered. They were referenced to an oncologist and the diagnosis was confirmed. Surgery and treatment was a week later. Whole thing took two and a half weeks. In the US they would be dead because they could not afford insurance nor the treatment. Much prefer the queue based system.
I didn't say the outcomes were similar I said it is just as ridiculous. The religious zeal which people defend the private choice system in the US and the zeal that single payer is defended in Canada are equally misinformed. We don't have death panels and allowing private health insurance isn't going to destroy the public system.

It's zealotry rather than an attempt to build a system which will service the most people at the lowest public cost.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:21 PM   #6447
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So if you want to know what the conversation at my salon is, that I get so frustrated with--just read a bunch of Texas Flames Fan's posts. Those posts are eerily reminiscent of everything I've listened to from certain coworkers and clients for months now.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:47 PM   #6448
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And none of this is a result of the ACA. I've already provided you proof that this was a result of Texas not managing their system worth a damn.
Buddy this is happening in every state. Not just Texas. In fact Texas was hit a lot less than other states. Restricting insurance to each state is a federal issue.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:51 PM   #6449
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If my phone bill went up 49% after 6 years, I'd say I came out ahead.

Telus and Shaw have been raising rates by 5-10% every 6 months. I'll let you do the math on how much that is after 6 years.
LOL. This was a 49% increase in one year! Not over 6 years. The previous 5 years it went up every year too! And don't try to BS me that your phone bill has gone up over the last 6 years. With more carriers our phone bills have decreased substantially and added value such as more GB and faster speeds have been added at no cost. Remember when calling out of area code was more expensive?
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:56 PM   #6450
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I've always wanted to ask an American these questions:

When you were growing up, you probably had several toy cars: police cars, fire trucks, ambulances, and tanks. Why is one of these treated differently from the others? Do you need to buy private police insurance to ensure you aren't robbed? Do you need to need to pay for military insurance in case you get bombed?

Why are Americans okay with taxpayers paying for the local fire department? For the police? For the military? If you applied the same logic as you did to health care, all these services should be privatized and competing with each other. These are no different from health care if you think about it. Everybody needs fire protection, they need policing, they need national defense. Everyone needs health care.

The basic functional basis of capitalism is that it only works when both parties are free to walk away from the transaction and make a rational decision to choose an alternative if they don't like the deal in front of them. This creates a free market, it creates competition, it creates innovation. For the fire department analogy - when your house is burning down, you can't say "no, the guys from Station No. 9 are cheaper, I'll call them for a quote." How would you feel if a fire truck pulled up, put out the fire, then told you now have an $80,000 bill to pay for all the guys to show up and the water they used? Isn't it better if everybody pays a tiny bit of taxes for the city to hire and run a local fire department in case anyone needs it? That's single-payer.

When it comes to healthcare, it is impossible for a person to walk away from the deal - the alternative being sickness and death. Private medical care, private insurers, HMOs, etc. can all collude to drive up costs, administrative fees, and create a behemoth of a money-pit industry that people can not in any rational sense walk away from.

"Sorry, you're having a heart-attack? Due to overhead and contracts, the ambulance ride is $2000, the surgery is $52,000, and the el-cheapo Verizon type plan you chose only covers part of this so you get to declare bankruptcy, have your life ruined, and die in poverty. Would you like to die now or later?"

For those that don't get screwed for life because of an emergency, the reality is, that for many people who can't afford the every-day care, they do walk away from help and when the issue becomes chronic and prohibitively expensive, it puts an even greater burden on the system. Think of it as not taking your car in to service because you couldn't afford the service plan and by the time you really need to fix it, you have to swap the whole transmission or buy a bus pass for life.

The next time an American complains that single-payer healthcare is them paying for other sick people, I need to ask them why are they okay paying for the military which defends other people, for paying to put out other people's fires, for paying for policing other people's neighborhoods. There is no difference between those services and healthcare. Single payer healthcare is the same thing - it's about reducing the burden of costs on everyone by providing blanket coverage for everyone and taking out the profit-making motive from the process.

Police, fire, emergency services, and the military are definitely not embroiled with accusations of socialism or communism. In fact, they are probably one of the biggest capitalist industries in the United States. There are millions of suppliers to police departments, trillions of dollars in defense contracting etc. If Americans really care about capitalism and making big bucks and exporting products to the rest of the world, why not think of health care as the same thing? All the suppliers and contractors and research companies already exist. It's just the stupid idea of insurance and selfish people thinking that they don't want to pay for other people's medications and surgeries that is the problem.

TLDR: police, fire, & military are already "single-payer" systems and are basic necessities and no different from health care. "Y'all" will need it one day. Why are Americans blind to this fact?
All very good questions and I agree with almost everything said. Like I said before I think the big issue is population. The health of 30 million people are easier to manage than the health of 300. I hate American health care but I am not too fond of Canadian health care either. A middle ground would be great but so far it seems out of reach for some reason.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:58 PM   #6451
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Lots of good stuff from Trump so far.

The nation needed a change and sometime things needs to swing past the center.

Too many people getting triggered by things they dont even understand and Trump didnt even cut their coverage for meds.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:03 PM   #6452
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Buddy this is happening in every state. Not just Texas. In fact Texas was hit a lot less than other states. Restricting insurance to each state is a federal issue.
Bro you are doing it wrong, this is a safe space for Neo-Liberals where they can hear the echo of their own voices and pat one another on the back for holding a "progressive view point".

Just lurk this thread, sit back and laugh at how ridiculous it is, don't bother engaging. The best part is we have 8 years of this to look forward to.

The biggest issue which nobody seems to talk about with regards to healthcare in the States, is why is it priced so much higher there? Maybe it has something to do with big money lobby's influencing government policies.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:03 PM   #6453
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Lots of good stuff from Trump so far.

The nation needed a change and sometime things needs to swing past the center.

Too many people getting triggered by things they dont even understand and Trump didnt even cut their coverage for meds.
"triggered"


What do you understand that others don't? What exactly is "triggering" people?

If you're going to be the smartest guy in the room, at least be specific about how you're smarter
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:07 PM   #6454
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LOL. This was a 49% increase in one year! Not over 6 years. The previous 5 years it went up every year too! And don't try to BS me that your phone bill has gone up over the last 6 years. With more carriers our phone bills have decreased substantially and added value such as more GB and faster speeds have been added at no cost. Remember when calling out of area code was more expensive?
Yeah why is it that everything the government controls continually becomes more expensive but everything in the private free market tends to become less expensive. It's truly puzzling.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:11 PM   #6455
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Yeah why is it that everything the government controls continually becomes more expensive but everything in the private free market tends to become less expensive. It's truly puzzling.
Like what things?
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:11 PM   #6456
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Yeah why is it that everything the government controls continually becomes more expensive but everything in the private free market tends to become less expensive. It's truly puzzling.
Yes I noticed how my prescription medicine is just getting so damn cheap, at this rate what with the price of coffee gas and rent dropping in Vancouver I wont know what to spend my money on.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:12 PM   #6457
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Lots of good stuff from Trump so far.

The nation needed a change and sometime things needs to swing past the center.

Too many people getting triggered by things they dont even understand and Trump didnt even cut their coverage for meds.
Things like they don't understand? Like ACA and Obamacare being one and the same.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:14 PM   #6458
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Yeah why is it that everything the government controls continually becomes more expensive but everything in the private free market tends to become less expensive. It's truly puzzling.
You're right. Health care in places that offer a universal system is way more pricey for individuals than for those that live in the United States.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:14 PM   #6459
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Yes I noticed how my prescription medicine is just getting so damn cheap, at this rate what with the price of coffee gas and rent dropping in Vancouver I wont know what to spend my money on.
I guess you won't ever have to worry about being able to buy a house in Van, but with all that savings you might be able to be the time you retire.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:15 PM   #6460
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Like what things?
Healthcare and education.
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