[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[Table 5]

If the strongest argument for putting public money into a hockey arena is to have more concerts, then perhaps we should just build a music-specific venue instead.

[DiracSpike]

I don't want an Edmonton-style deal but I think the Saddledome has unarguably been a net benefit to this city. Reading about its genesis there was a lot of oppostion to it being built as well, the residents of Victoria Park made a racket about it and the city ended up kicking in $30 mil. Does anyone miss that $30 million now? Think about all that this city would have missed out on without that building. Concerts, shows, 35+ years of hockey, a stanley cup champion team, and the goddamn freaking Olympics. You can argue about the city not getting dicked in this deal and I'd agree with you but even those of you who watch that John Oliver stadium segment every night before you go to sleep have to admit that there's vast civic benefit in having a modern arena. I'm sure there's a deal to be made that everyone profits from and ensures the city another 30 years of high profile events.

And I say this as someone that loves the Dome and doesn't want it to be replaced, its old enough to have character, and memories built in. I really like how the place instantly smells like nacho cheese and beer the second you walk in. But I'm not naive to expect that we can keep enjoying NHL games and have a shot at the first Olympics in my lifetime without a modern building.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Table 5

If the strongest argument for putting public money into a hockey arena is to have more concerts, then perhaps we should just build a music-specific venue instead.

It's an argument. No one said the strongest argument.

[jayswin]

Does that make much sense, though? (asking sincerely) If you tried to build a 15k concert venue arena would it not end up costing hundreds of millions anyways? And now all you can host is concerts, no sports and it's owned by the city. Seems like a catastrophe in the making.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Table 5

If the strongest argument for putting public money into a hockey arena is to have more concerts, then perhaps we should just build a music-specific venue instead.

then the city pays to run the thing...not cheap

Hockey pumps a ton of money into the economy too

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Does that make much sense, though? (asking sincerely) If you tried to build a 15k concert venue arena would it not end up costing hundreds of millions anyways? And now all you can host is concerts, no sports and it's owned by the city. Seems like a catastrophe in the making.

BUT BUT BUT

Millionaire players and Billionaire owners

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Does that make much sense, though? (asking sincerely) If you tried to build a 15k concert venue arena would it not end up costing hundreds of millions anyways? And now all you can host is concerts, no sports and it's owned by the city. Seems like a catastrophe in the making.

I think that's his point.

[Senator Clay Davis]

What's most hilarious about this latest round of snipping (that I'm obviously guilty of driving) is that as I keep reiterating, the arena is going to happen. Does anyone debate that anymore? It's CalgaryNEXT that is dead, but that's been dead or close to dead since the first presentation. But Plan B Arena, a $450 million arena financed by a ticket tax and ownership contribution, is happening. Process just needs to work itself out. So don't worry dino, an arena is coming, just not CalgaryNEXT. And when Calgary still gets skipped by a lot of shows, you'll have to find a new target to blame.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Does that make much sense, though? (asking sincerely) If you tried to build a 15k concert venue arena would it not end up costing hundreds of millions anyways? And now all you can host is concerts, no sports and it's owned by the city. Seems like a catastrophe in the making.

It was a tongue in cheek comment, since every argument seems to circle back to us wanting to have more concerts. Personally I think the fact that it keeps coming up so much as a main point is an indictment of how shallow the argument is for giving a public enterprise a few hundred million dollars.

[jayswin]

nm

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Table 5

It was a tongue in cheek comment, since every argument seems to circle back to us wanting to have more concerts. Personally I think it's an indictment of how shallow the argument is for giving a public enterprise a few hundred million dollars.

ah, I get it. Sorry, so many serious yet ridiculous posts in this thread I took it at face value. I feel shame.

[monkeyman]

There's no doubt we're getting a new arena, it's just a matter of when, where and how much. I'm onboard 100% with incorporating a new arena with the Victoria park/Stampede ground redevelopment, I'm just hoping the final design is something we can enjoy year round yet flexible enough to host and enhance the greatest outdoor show on earth. It really could be transformational for the city if done right.

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Ken King hates access and egress.

these renderings do nothing but support how stupid an area this is. What a nightmare

[polak]

Originally Posted by Table 5

It was a tongue in cheek comment, since every argument seems to circle back to us wanting to have more concerts. Personally I think the fact that it keeps coming up so much as a main point is an indictment of how shallow the argument is for giving a public enterprise a few hundred million dollars.

Is it shallow?

All we hear is how boring and uncultured Calgary is. How there is nothing to do.

This is a reputation that follows Calgary around the world. You might not think concerts and performances are worth anything but they contribute a lot to what little culture and arts we get here and are important in attracting young talent to the city. Not everyone Hikes or is a Skier.

[djsFlames]

Owners had better pitch in at least half.

Just make it better than than curvaceous concrete slab up in Edmonton.

And, please, let's not wait until ####ing 2020 to get shovels in the ground.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I think that's his point.

I don't get how that can be his point. So his point is, instead of working with the Flames and sharing the costs of a joint venue, the city should spend double the money by themselves to build a venue that gets filled up 10-20 times a year? All so they can uphold their principle of not giving billionaires free money to build a jointly used stadium?

Edit: Just read the response by Table5 after, but my point still stands. I think people are underestimating how many big acts skip Calgary because of the Saddledome limitations.

[Scary Eloranta]

I think we all agree that Calgary Next is pretty much dead but what does that mean for that area? Will creosote just leak out there forever? Is it even that bad or does KK exaggerate that to promote his agenda? And what's the future for that area - ugly ass car dealerships till the end of time?

I actually liked the IDEA of building an arena and stadium there - just not the lame ass proposal they came up with. I was hoping for something more like the VTB arena/stadium complex they're building in Russia but that was just wishful thinking.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by polak

Is it shallow?

This is a reputation that follows Calgary around the world. You might not think concerts and performances are worth anything but they contribute a lot to what little culture and arts we get here and are important in attracting young talent to the city. Not everyone Hikes or is a Skier.

I absolutely think that music is important....I'm just not convinced that missing out on a handful of One Dimension concerts is a good reason for us to hand the Flames 200-300 million dollars.

I also don't think Calgary is that shallow on the music front considering the fairly great summer music festival scene we have these days. Personally I think a new Glenbow Museum would do much more in terms of enriching a cultural hole in our city. We're also the only major city in Canada without a proper large-scale Art gallery/museum.

[Dr. Pepper]

Originally Posted by Scary Eloranta

I think we all agree that Calgary Next is pretty much dead but what does that mean for that area? Will creosote just leak out there forever? Is it even that bad or does KK exaggerate that to promote his agenda? And what's the future for that area - ugly ass car dealerships till the end of time?

Yup. Anything that doesn't disturb the creosote. Unless by some miracle they agree on who cleans it up. But even then you'd have to move everything from there to do it. I just think the Flames made a horrible miscalculation on that proposal for that site. Shoot for the stars sure, but maybe shoot for one say 10 light years away instead of 100? Better proposal should've been just north of the Saddledome in the first place.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Scary Eloranta

I think we all agree that Calgary Next is pretty much dead but what does that mean for that area? Will creosote just leak out there forever? Is it even that bad or does KK exaggerate that to promote his agenda? And what's the future for that area - ugly ass car dealerships till the end of time?

I actually liked the IDEA of building an arena and stadium there - just not the lame ass proposal they came up with. I was hoping for something more like the VTB arena/stadium complex they're building in Russia but that was just wishful thinking.

The creosote problem will last until someone wants to develop and is willing to pay, which is likely never. I don't think there's a will for the City or the Province to do it, and I doubt that will ever change. There's no one else to target for the cost.