I think it's time Treliving starts taking some serious heat

[Calgary4LIfe]

Since we are all talking about the stuff that Treliving did that we didn't like, I only have two.

1) The Raymond signing. I didn't think it would work out, and it didn't. Not a very big issue though.

2) Firing Hartley - felt he deserved another kick at the can, but also understood why Treliving wanted to get his own guy in and further shape the team he envisioned. That's his prerogative. It is also looking like a good move now.

If that is all that I have been apprehensive about regarding him thus far, that's pretty damn good. Brouwer's contract doesn't bother me much either - he may live up to it, or we may find him overpriced - but he will be an asset in the bottom 6 at worst, and I can live with that.

[Vinny01]

Tre definitely owns the Brouwer signing but I understand why it was made. Brouwer had a fairly beastly playoff last year and filled a huge hole on the team at the time as a right shot with size. Personally I saw him as the top line RW all summer but he has failed to do much. Every now and then we see a big hit, but not much else.

He was the player on the market that made a lot of sense. The Flames were able to get him under 5 years and under $5M per. He has played on a lot of strong teams including the cup winning Hawks of 2010. He wanted to come here and plans to live in the community moving forward helps as well.

I think some here would rather have given more money and term for Okposo and that is fair. Not sure he would have come here though

[GoJetsGo]

I was excited and defended the Brouwer signing at the time but he's been very underwhelming so far this season.

With that said, it's still early in his tenure, and we are just now - at this point in the season - arriving at a stage where he can step up and earn his keep.

He's a seasoned veteran who's been in these waters before and can be a stabilizing presence for these young guys we have - in addition to scoring some big goals.

I'd hold off calling him a big mistake until we see what happens to end the regular seasons and in the playoffs. Could be a very different story.

[Erick Estrada]

I would like to see what Brouwer can offer in the playoffs. If it's more of the same then I hope Treliving has the stones to accept a mistake and leave him available in the expansion draft. If he's back next season I would expect him to be better to a degree as some guys take a season to settle in to a new city and team. He's nowhere near the boat anchor that Lucic and Eriksson are but consider what he's brought the team this season I think you would rather have that $4.5 million freed up to retain Stone, sign a goaltender to a long term deal, find that elusive RW for the first line, etc. He's been arguably less of a factor this season than Versteeg who was a UFA on camp tryouts.

[thymebalm]

Re: Granlund

-He's always been a great player. I watched him nightly during his time with the Heat, and he was almost a point a game as a rookie in the AHL. He has a laser shot, can deke and skate and think the game. You watched him and thought "too good for this league."

-He didn't have a spot on this team. He was going to be wasted or ruined buried behind Bennett, Backlund and Monahan. There was zero room for him as a center. He probably could have turned into a good winger for the organization, but we'll never know now.

-He had no trade value. What!? I just said he was good and no he has no trade value?! GMs knew he was going to be waiver wire fodder when the Flames couldn't fit him in next season, so why would they pay for something they could have for free? It's hard to make demands when the other GMs can look at your salaries and roster spots and see your weakness.

-Shinkaruk was probably the level of prospect being offered across the board. What Treliving was really after, if you recall, was flexibility. He was handcuffed by the previous GMs (Wideman, Stajan, Smid), and a couple of poor choices of his own (Bouma, Raymond) and he was left needing to hold an asset that he could waive and retain. Shinkaruk had the extra year on his ELC to give the Flames a call up ready guy that they didn't need to expose for an extra year.

Was it worth it? I don't know. Granny can play. Were they going to be able to keep him at all? maybe not. I think a lot of GMs had his name circled come October when the final roster was announced.

We've tasted the feeling of losing a quality guy to the wire because of bad management. Sacrificing Byron to the Three-Headed Goalie-Monster didn't pay off, and Montreal is laughing in our faces. As they should be.

Treliving wasn't going to let that happen twice. He had an asset that was going to be exposed and it was either pull the trigger in February or have the rug pulled out from under him in October.

[btimbit]

Was a huge Brouwer fan last year and was ecstatic about signing him this year, but yeah he has been very underwhelming. I'm still positive he'll show more come playoff time, and also hoping it's just a classic case of a player underperforming the first year of a new/big contract. But again, just a hunch and a hope. Come on, prove me right Troy

[Vinny01]

I am very hopeful that the bottom 6 is key in tjenplayoffs for the Flames. Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer is a line that potentially will be able to put the puck in the net and 2/3 of that line can play very physical. My hopeful 4th line for the playoffs is Hathaway-Stajan-Lazar which I also think will mix things up and provide great energy.

I think that is where Treliving has really set the Flames up well in all positions. It took a while but up front the Flames have a very legit top 6. Ferland has fit in great with our star duo and the 3M line has been great since being put together. With that bottom 6 I think Calgary would have the advantage against either Edmonton or Anaheim when it comes to depth.

On the blueline the Flames top 3 is among the best in the league. They have a legit top pairing and an excellent number 3. Stone is a very serviceable number 4. Engellend is a solid bottom pairing tough guy. Bartkowski is better than Wideman but both are fringe Dmen.

Even in net if Elliott falters I like having the Chad as a backup.

This team is deep and can do some damage. They are showing when they get high end goaltending and their top line plays to potential they are an elite team. 15-2-1 record over the past 18 proves that

[bigrangy]

The thing about Brouwer is that the player that was advertised is not the player that exists.

What Brouwer was advertised as:

20 goals
20 assists
Plays with an edge
Great playoff performer
Cup ring
Right shot
Stands up for his teammates

What Brouwer is:

4th liner that feeds on the PP but isn't especially good at it
Too slow to hit people
Intangibles
Cup ring
Right shot

Maybe Brouwer is the secret sauce powering this win streak through the power of his intangibles, maybe he was the reason that they didn't go on one sooner since he isn't very good at hockey, I can't tell which, but that's up to people affiliated with the team to decide.

I would kill to have the player that Brouwer was supposed to be. He would be exactly what this team is missing. All that for only 4.5 million would be the biggest steal in the league. (i.e. Wayne Simmonds)

Unfortunately for the Flames, their pro scouting and GM did not realize who Brouwer really was and now they have an albatross on their hands. His contract isn't unforgivably bad but a team that wants to compete really should avoid having a 4.5 million dollar player on their 4th line.

[smiggy77]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

The thing about Brouwer is that the player that was advertised is not the player that exists.

What Brouwer was advertised as:

20 goals
20 assists
Plays with an edge
Great playoff performer
Cup ring
Right shot
Stands up for his teammates

What Brouwer is:

4th liner that feeds on the PP but isn't especially good at it
Too slow to hit people
Intangibles
Cup ring
Right shot

Maybe Brouwer is the secret sauce powering this win streak through the power of his intangibles, maybe he was the reason that they didn't go on one sooner since he isn't very good at hockey, I can't tell which, but that's up to people affiliated with the team to decide.

I would kill to have the player that Brouwer was supposed to be. He would be exactly what this team is missing. All that for only 4.5 million would be the biggest steal in the league. (i.e. Wayne Simmonds)

Unfortunately for the Flames, their pro scouting and GM did not realize who Brouwer really was and now they have an albatross on their hands. His contract isn't unforgivably bad but a team that wants to compete really should avoid having a 4.5 million dollar player on their 4th line.

Last three seasons of being approx. 20 goal 40 point player and seven seasons of being in that ballpark compared to now isn't the player he really was, it's the player he turned into. It's ludicrous to fault Tre for that. Everything is 20/20 in hindsight, no GM is a fortune teller.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

It seems important to mention the fact it is season 1 for Brouwer.

It seems crazy to declare his contract as Tre's worst error less than 1 year after it was signed.

Think of the highs and lows of Hudler and Wideman's contracts. They went from bargains to anchors about three times each during their respective tenures with the flames.

Way too early to judge.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by smiggy77

Last three seasons of being approx. 20 goal 40 point player and seven seasons of being in that ballpark isn't the player he really was, it's the player he turned into. It's ludicrous to fault Tre for that.

He won't be this bad throughout his tenure. I don't know if he's adjusting, or if he has no chemistry or if he's dealing with other injuries or off ice issues, but he'll find his role.

Look at Matt Stajan. That contract was miserable at a certain stage, but this season, I love the role he's taken on. He's a plus player, he's having one of the better offensive outputs of his calgary career, he's able to match up with any line if needed.

Brouwer has something more to offer this club, we haven't seen the whole package yet. Last thing I'll say is there is no one else in the Flames system I would trust to soak up those 15 minutes of ice time a night.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

He won't be this bad throughout his tenure. I don't know if he's adjusting, or if he has no chemistry or if he's dealing with other injuries or off ice issues, but he'll find his role.

Look at Matt Stajan. That contract was miserable at a certain stage, but this season, I love the role he's taken on. He's a plus player, he's having one of the better offensive outputs of his calgary career, he's able to match up with any line if needed.

Brouwer has something more to offer this club, we haven't seen the whole package yet. Last thing I'll say is there is no one else in the Flames system I would trust to soak up those 15 minutes of ice time a night.

I like Matt stajan but we need to be honest about this. His contract is terrible. I don't care what kind of role he has on the team or in the dressing room. Having a guy making $4m for five goals this season is pretty terrible.

For $1.5m his contract isn't bad.

[smiggy77]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

He won't be this bad throughout his tenure. I don't know if he's adjusting, or if he has no chemistry or if he's dealing with other injuries or off ice issues, but he'll find his role.



Look at Matt Stajan. That contract was miserable at a certain stage, but this season, I love the role he's taken on. He's a plus player, he's having one of the better offensive outputs of his calgary career, he's able to match up with any line if needed.



Brouwer has something more to offer this club, we haven't seen the whole package yet. Last thing I'll say is there is no one else in the Flames system I would trust to soak up those 15 minutes of ice time a night.

I'm with you. I think there are intangibles there and yes he may not be worth the 4.5 mil now but I agree I'm hoping he will make it worth it eventually.

Plus I think any player putting up big minutes through a 10 game winning streak is part of the equation, so I wouldn't change a thing.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

...Unfortunately for the Flames, their pro scouting and GM did not realize who Brouwer really was and now they have an albatross on their hands. His contract isn't unforgivably bad but a team that wants to compete really should avoid having a 4.5 million dollar player on their 4th line.

The hyperbole is overwhelming.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The hyperbole is overwhelming.

Even in his good seasons he scored at a 3rd line pace.

Looking further into the numbers it actually seems like he's having an uncharacteristically bad season so I would definitely expect him to improve next year, but 4.5 mil for an aging 3rd line winger (at best) who isn't anything special defensively is not a good investment. Frolik's contract isn't anything better than fair and he's twice the player Brouwer is.

[Hackey]

As long as Brouwer can step up in the playoffs I don't really care what he did in the regular season. I definitely think he is capable of playing better than he has and hopefully the post season will inspire him to play his best.

[Caged Great]

A lot of people thought the Frolik signing was bad and he was overpaid as well.

And then this year happened.

He (Brouwer) is a good 2nd/3rd line tweener that ups his game in the playoffs. That's why he was brought in.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

A lot of people thought the Frolik signing was bad and he was overpaid as well.

And then this year happened.

He is a good 2nd/3rd line tweener that ups his game in the playoffs. That's why he was brought in.

How many people really thought he was a bad signing last year? I honestly don't remember there being many people griping about Frolik. I have seen this brought up a few times, and each time I am left thinking that there were not many people at all. I believe it was just Ricardow over and over and over again, no?

[Textcritic]

^
In a year in which several of the Flames' top players' numbers are down, are we honestly this outraged at Brouwer's performance in Calgary?

I expect Brouwer will be better next season.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

A lot of people thought the Frolik signing was bad and he was overpaid as well.

And then this year happened.

He is a good 2nd/3rd line tweener that ups his game in the playoffs. That's why he was brought in.

Really? Who thought Frolik signing was bad? Pretty much every one loves Frolik don't know where you got that from.