03-11-2017, 09:22 PM
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#1
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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How does Matthew Tkachuk compare to the best rookies in Flames history?
Matthew Tkachuk has been nothing short of a revelation for the Flames and their fans this season. Not only is he an incredible offensive talent, but he has also quickly become one of the game's top defensive forwards. Tkachuk's stats are elite, and in any other year, he'd be a frontrunner for the Calder Trophy. He does all this despite playing just 14:22 a game, good for 16th on the team, and 7th among all forwards.
Matthew Tkachuk's 2016-17 Stats
64 GP | 12 G | 32 A | 44 P | 11 PPP | 94 PIM
0.69 P/GP | 14:22 ATOI | 42.2% oZS
3.3 ES GF/60 | 8.7% relative CF
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Last edited by TheScorpion; 03-11-2017 at 09:24 PM.
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03-11-2017, 09:24 PM
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#2
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In the studio
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He'll be right up there with Iggy, Fleury, Gaudreau. He's like a combination of all three of those players... Fleurtkachiggyreau.
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03-11-2017, 09:25 PM
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#3
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Gary Suter says hi for the 2nd time this week!
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03-11-2017, 09:26 PM
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#4
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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@Heavy Jack
I agree... but what about guys like Nieuwendyk, Plett, Makarov, Suter... guys who I wasn't alive to see play for the Flames?
I've seen terrific rookie seasons from guys like Phaneuf, Gaudreau, etc... I'm looking for a more historical take here.
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03-11-2017, 09:29 PM
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#5
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That Crazy Guy at the Bus Stop
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Springfield Penitentiary
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Of all the flames rookies I've ever seen Tkatchuk is far and away the most "seasoned". Watching him play you'd never know that he wasn't a ten year NHL veteran.
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03-11-2017, 09:34 PM
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#6
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Franchise Player
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( 51 G 91 pts Calder) Joe Nieuwendyk?
(Calder)Gary Suter?
(Finalist) Johnny Gaudreau?
Theoren Fleury?
Mike Vernon?
Just off memory. Not even in the conversation.
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03-11-2017, 09:35 PM
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#7
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In the studio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
@Heavy Jack
I agree... but what about guys like Nieuwendyk, Plett, Makarov, Suter... guys who I wasn't alive to see play for the Flames?
I've seen terrific rookie seasons from guys like Phaneuf, Gaudreau, etc... I'm looking for a more historical take here.
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It's a fair question for sure, this not too long ago article shows the top 25 rookie scorers for the Flames:
Pointwise he'll finish maybe in 8th alone with 56 points but when you start to consider some of the other stats and what he's accomplished to go along with the fact that he's 18 and one of the youngest Flames rookies then I think it puts him up there with the Suter's (sorry Bingo  ) Iginla's, Fleury's, Gaudreau's.
I think he has a case for top 5 all time Flames rookies IMHO
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03-11-2017, 09:35 PM
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#8
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Moscow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger
Of all the flames rookies I've ever seen Tkatchuk is far and away the most "seasoned". Watching him play you'd never know that he wasn't a ten year NHL veteran.
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Makarov?
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03-11-2017, 09:38 PM
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#9
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That Crazy Guy at the Bus Stop
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Springfield Penitentiary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makarov
Makarov?
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Well I never saw him play in his "rookie" season and he was 31 years old so he was literally a 10 year veteran.
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03-11-2017, 09:40 PM
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#10
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbit
( 51 G 91 pts Calder) Joe Nieuwendyk?
(Calder) Suter?
(Finalist) Johnny Gaudreau?
Theoren Fleury?
Mike Vernon?
Just off memory. Not even in the conversation.
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Nieuwendyk is hard to argue. So is Suter.
Gaudreau is very easy to argue. Tkachuk is having a significantly better rookie season. Gaudreau's oZS% in 2014-15: 56.0. He was heavily sheltered by Bobba, whereas Tkachuk hasn't been and yet he is still putting up similar stats. Meanwhile, Gaudreau scored 21 of his 64 points in 2014-15 on the PP, while only 11 of Tkachuk's 44 points this year have come with the man-advantage.
Fleury's rookie season... it's hard to argue w/ a Cup, but Fleury wasn't even at a P/GP and scoring was way higher. While I don't have any data, I doubt he was utilized in all defensive situations like Tkachuk.
Vernon was okay in 86-87, but not nearly as dominant at his position as Tkachuk. He was 17th in SV%, not even the best on the team.
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03-11-2017, 09:41 PM
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#11
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger
Well I never saw him play in his "rookie" season and he was 31 years old so he was literally a 10 year veteran.
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Today's standards? No
Certainly a rookie by yesteryears though
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03-11-2017, 09:44 PM
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#12
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Richmond, BC
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That hockey card makes me miss the old NHL logo. Shame they ever changed it.
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Freedom consonant with responsibility.
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03-11-2017, 09:45 PM
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#13
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That Crazy Guy at the Bus Stop
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Springfield Penitentiary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Today's standards? No
Certainly a rookie by yesteryears though
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???
I didn't say he wasn't a rookie. I just never saw him play and it's hard to argue a 31 year old isn't more seasoned than a 19 year old. Makarov looked like a 10 year vet because he was.
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03-11-2017, 09:48 PM
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#14
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
Nieuwendyk is hard to argue. So is Suter.
Gaudreau is very easy to argue. Tkachuk is having a significantly better rookie season. Gaudreau's oZS% in 2014-15: 56.0. He was heavily sheltered by Bobba, whereas Tkachuk hasn't been and yet he is still putting up similar stats. Meanwhile, Gaudreau scored 21 of his 64 points in 2014-15 on the PP, while only 11 of Tkachuk's 44 points this year have come with the man-advantage.
Fleury's rookie season... it's hard to argue w/ a Cup, but Fleury wasn't even at a P/GP and scoring was way higher. While I don't have any data, I doubt he was utilized in all defensive situations like Tkachuk.
Vernon was okay in 86-87, but not nearly as dominant at his position as Tkachuk. He was 17th in SV%, not even the best on the team.
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Vernon played 21 games in the 85-86 playoffs leading the Flames to the SCF.
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03-11-2017, 09:49 PM
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#15
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Section 120
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I'm having a tough time thinking of a winger in the NHL who has a better blend of grit, smarts, and playmaking abilities.
Tkachuk's having the best rookie season of any Flame past 1990.
Last edited by Bourque's Twin; 03-11-2017 at 09:55 PM.
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03-11-2017, 09:49 PM
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#16
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbit
Vernon 21 games in the 85-86 playoffs leading the Flames to the SCF.
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That's like Matt Murray. 85-86 was not Vernon's rookie season.
__________________
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03-11-2017, 09:50 PM
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#17
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Franchise Player
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At this point in his first season, Niewendyk was on course to break the all-time record for goals by a rookie. I love Matthew Tkachuk, and he's having a great season. But it's just not the same as watching a Flames rookie having one of the best seasons by a rookie in the history of the NHL.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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03-11-2017, 09:51 PM
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#18
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Franchise Player
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Fleury played on the 4th line on a stacked Cup team. He was a better rookie than Tkachuk, whom I really like. On the 4th line he was almost a point a game.
Last edited by timbit; 03-11-2017 at 09:55 PM.
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03-11-2017, 10:00 PM
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#19
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
That's like Matt Murray. 85-86 was not Vernon's rookie season.
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Did you have a chance to watch any of the guys I mentioned, in their rookie season, besides Gaudreau.?
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03-11-2017, 10:02 PM
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#20
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbit
Did you have a chance to watch any of the guys I mentioned, in their rookie season, besides Gaudreau.?
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Said it earlier in the thread... nope.
I started watching hockey in 2005-06. I started really intently following it in 2008.
I've witnessed great rookie years in person from Phaneuf, Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, and now Tkachuk.
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