US Military Paints Bleak Iraq Picture

[Agamemnon]

Thought this was a pretty interesting picture created by the US military in trying to graphically interpret what is going on in Iraq.

WASHINGTON, Oct. 30 — A classified briefing prepared two weeks ago by the United States Central Command portrays Iraq as edging toward chaos, in a chart that the military is using as a barometer of civil conflict.

The slide includes a color-coded bar chart that is used to illustrate an “Index of Civil Conflict.” It shows a sharp escalation in sectarian violence since the bombing of a *****e shrine in Samarra in February, and tracks a further worsening this month despite a concerted American push to tamp down the violence in Baghdad.

An intelligence summary at the bottom of the slide reads “urban areas experiencing ‘ethnic cleansing’ campaigns to consolidate control” and “violence at all-time high, spreading geographically.” According to a Central Command official, the index on civil strife has been a staple of internal command briefings for most of this year. The analysis was prepared by the command’s intelligence directorate, which is overseen by Brig. Gen. John M. Custer.

I'm wondering how this is supposed to end for the US in Iraq. Will they 'Vietnamize' the conflict (replace US troops with Iraqi troops) and then pull out? Will that work?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/01/wo...rtner=homepage

[RougeUnderoos]

Well if that's two weeks old, is it safe to assume that chaos starts on Monday afternoon?

What a mess.

[Vulcan]

It seems to be degenerating into the clusterfuk some people predicted. This is one time I'm not happy to say, I told you so. Still, all the cards haven't yet been played.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

It seems to be degenerating into the clusterfuk some people predicted. This is one time I'm not happy to say, I told you so. Still, all the cards haven't yet been played.

Like the Hiroshima card?

[RougeUnderoos]

That is not an option.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Now we know why the Bushies are changing the "slogan of the week" from 'stay the course' to 'this is all Bill Clinton's fault'! What a disaster. It doesn't matter which side of the aisle you are suporting, this whole thing has denigrated into a crime against humanity.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

Like the Hiroshima card?

Jesus Frank, how would a nuclear bomb fix anything? The Americans started this crap and let it spiral out of control. A nuke won't do anything but make things worse.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

Jesus Frank, how would a nuclear bomb fix anything? The Americans started this crap and let it spiral out of control. A nuke won't do anything but make things worse.

I meant it as a tongue-in-cheek comment. Iraq is so screwed right now its not even funny.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

I meant it as a tongue-in-cheek comment. Iraq is so screwed right now its not even funny.

You gotta feel sorry for those living in Iraq. Most people over there are just like you and me and just want to have a life of their chosing, not live in a war zone. The poor people are marginalized and thought of as animals. They are just like you and I, just with different cultural norms. They don't deserve this crap.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Frank the Tank

Like the Hiroshima card?

The best card I can see is if a new president can convince other powers [NATO] to step up and put boots on the ground. Lock the country down under strict military rule until it's stabilized. It's becoming a breeding ground for terrorism which could make it in the best interests for Europe and even other Middle East countries to intervene.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by Lanny_MacDonald

You gotta feel sorry for those living in Iraq. Most people over there are just like you and me and just want to have a life of their chosing, not live in a war zone. The poor people are marginalized and thought of as animals. They are just like you and I, just with different cultural norms. They don't deserve this crap.

Couldn't agree more. I saw this really strange picture of this US soldier on patrol, crouched down against a wall on some street. Sitting right beside him was a shopkeeper on a stool, just hanging out, waiting for a customer. It struck me as really bizarre to be jus hanging out a foot or two away from this guy in a flak jacket with a huge machine gun and it was obviously the norm for this shopkeeper.

[JohnnyFlame]

I would think many of those indicators are showing that very little is wrong except a refusal to accept what would be the best way out. Not only the best way out but happening anyway.

Kurds are very wisely consolidating their grip --- makes perfect sense -- they should be all about creating their own state.

Muslim groups -- they hate each other -- keeping them together accomplishes what?

Accelerate the process -- create 3 states -- back the Kurds.

No more ethnic cleansing -- no more insurgency -- if they want to go at it after that then let them.

No idea why they don't just go with what the people want!!!!

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The best card I can see is if a new president can convince other powers [NATO] to step up and put boots on the ground. Lock the country down under strict military rule until it's stabilized. It's becoming a breeding ground for terrorism which could make it in the best interests for Europe and even other Middle East countries to intervene.

I shudder to think what that place is going to look like in two years, let alone by the time they can organize some sort of force to go in and clean up this effing disaster.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I shudder to think what that place is going to look like in two years, let alone by the time they can organize some sort of force to go in and clean up this effing disaster.

Time is not on their side. The Yanks had their chance in 04. I was trying to bring some hope to the situation but maybe JohnnyFlame is right and we should just wash our hands and let them sort it out as would happen with a pack of dogs.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Time is not on their side. The Yanks had their chance in 04. I was trying to bring some hope to the situation but maybe JohnnyFlame is right and we should just wash our hands and let them sort it out as would happen with a pack of dogs.

In '04 how so?

If they hadn't been so goddamn stupid and waited until 04 they probably would have had some help and maybe even a plan, but I don't think that is what you mean.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

In '04 how so?

If they hadn't been so goddamn stupid and waited until 04 they probably would have had some help and maybe even a plan, but I don't think that is what you mean.

Yeah, I was referring to the election after the Iraq invasion, as I don't see Bush being able get his allies on side.

[Mr.Coffee]

Sooooo let me get this straight:

America declares war on Iraq, for several diluted reasons to which the whole world refuses to agree to, and condones the Americans for acting upon.

America goes to war, costs itself over $330 BILLION in addition to THOUSANDS of American lives and many more THOUSANDS of Iraqi lives.

America accomplishes a whole hell of not much...

America asks for some of the developed nations help (such as Nato) in order to fix the situation.

Amazing.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Time is not on their side. The Yanks had their chance in 04. I was trying to bring some hope to the situation but maybe JohnnyFlame is right and we should just wash our hands and let them sort it out as would happen with a pack of dogs.

It's not washing our hands. It's using your noggin. The goal of making IRAQ this model democratic state was dumb to begin with.

Go in and toss out Hussein -- Fine.

Smoke any terrorists they can find there or anywhere -- for sure.

After that go with the flow. The Afghans for the most part look like they want help so give it to them. The Kurds likewise so give them want them want.

The other sides want clear of each other -- They will never trust each other nor should they based on their history.

So washing their hands --No--just helping those that deserve it and putting the onus on the others to straighten up or face a civil war!!!

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Sooooo let me get this straight:

America declares war on Iraq, for several diluted reasons to which the whole world refuses to agree to, and condones the Americans for acting upon.

America goes to war, costs itself over $330 BILLION in addition to THOUSANDS of American lives and many more THOUSANDS of Iraqi lives.

America accomplishes a whole hell of not much...

America asks for some of the developed nations help (such as Nato) in order to fix the situation.

Amazing.

I don't know but I expect if you are a Kurd and could soon be living in a free state of your own you are thinking that the American action is little short of fabulous.

I'm willing to be a whole lot of Afghans are extremely happy to have the Taliban erased from power as well.

So yep I think we can see the legitimacy of helping the Afghans and the Kurds for that matter.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

I don't know but I expect if you are a Kurd and could soon be living in a free state of your own you are thinking that the American action is little short of fabulous.

I'm willing to be a whole lot of Afghans are extremely happy to have the Taliban erased from power as well.

So yep I think we can see the legitimacy of helping the Afghans and the Kurds for that matter.

Kurds are 1/3 of the picture.

Oh and by the way, we're talking about Iraq, not Afghanistan.

It's not hard to see here that the Americans ****ed up. And you know so.