[Trade] Sens trade Lazar and Kostka to the Flames for a 2nd + Jokipakka

[sureLoss]

Out of curiosity,

Who would you rather have?

Nail Yakupov for a conditonal 3rd (turns into a 2nd if he scores 15 goals)

or

Curtis Lazar for a 2nd

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

People think I'm negative but IMO Flash puts me in a better light ha ha ha. That said I respect everyone's right to an opinion and me being more of a glass half empty person I tend to agree with him at times. If you look at my posts prior to the trade regarding Lazar I've never been high on him and today I don't believe he will ever be a top 6 forward. That said I'm not high on this draft and to me a 2nd round pick is fine to roll on a player that has already at least played in the NHL and has leadership intangibles as this organization has three first round picks in the AHL in Piorier, Klimchuk, and Shinkaruk that look like they may never play in the NHL so they are getting a bit of a known commodity for a roll of the dice draft pick. Not sure if it works out but I like Lazar's chances of being a regular NHL player over a 2nd round pick in a bad draft.

This is really the only way to evaluate giving a pick for a player/prospect. Have a look at the list around where there Flames will pick. Is there an fairly high chance NHLer there?

FTR I voted "neutral".

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Out of curiosity,

Who would you rather have?

Nail Yakupov for a conditonal 3rd (turns into a 2nd if he scores 15 goals)

or

Curtis Lazar for a 2nd

I think I would prefer Lazar based on future salary expectations based on prior year offensive output.

If Lazar can take a regular shift in a defensive role on the third line c position and you can sign him to a deal south of 1.5 mil I think you're a better team than paying yak 2-2.5 for one, bad, dimensional play in your top 6.

[The Fonz]

We should make a list of trades that happened where the acquiring team had personnel (former coach/GM/scout) familiar with the acquired player, and whether or not it worked out for them.

Flames related...

- CGY (Sutter) acquires Kiprusoff from SJ for a 2nd round pick
- VAN (Weisbrod) acquires Baertschi from CGY for a 2nd round pick
- VAN (Weisbrod) acquires Granlund from CGY for Shinkaruk
- CGY (Gulutzan) acquires Chaisson from OTT for Sieloff
- CGY (Treliving, Maloney) acquires Stone from ARZ for a 3rd round pick
- CGY (Cameron) acquires Lazar from OTT for a 2nd round pick


Remains to be seen how the Lazar trade works out, but as for the rest, the team acquiring a player that they had the inside track on seemed to get solid value in each trade (obviously great value in the Kiprusoff trade).

Somewhat Flames related... will be interesting to see how it pans out for LA in trading for Iginla. You'd have to think it was Sutter that pushed for that, given that no other teams were interested.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Sure, not every team was in the position to acquire the player even if they had valued him to the same capacity as the Flames, however, it is not as though they did not have the opportunity to acquire the player by making organization/roster changes if Lazar for a 2nd was a perceived bargain. Just because the flames have the room to acquire Lazar doesn't mean they didn't have to make their own internal shuffles regarding expansion. Now it likely means exposing brouwer which was not a given say 2 weeks ago.

Further, there were teams in a position to acquire Lazar but chose not to, and that includes a team like the Canucks who made a separate deal with the sens during the window Lazar was available. Now, just because the Canucks don't grab a player doesn't mean he's no good, but it illustrates that the senators had options on the trade market. It may be in accurate to say 29 teams passed on Lazar and that isn't really the point I am trying to make. The point is that it was public information long enough that the senators were shopping him that if he was a very attractive asset teams could have positioned themselves to acquire him as the Flames did. If the team's in the running, say it is as few as 10 teams able to take on Lazar, ultimately the flames appear to have given the strongest offer for his services because they ended up with the player. In a year or two the flames will either look like they saw something others didn't or they saw something that wasn't there, or that they analysed his value perfectly to exchange the second rounder.

However it ends up the judgement of the trade will happen in the context of what did the rest of the league decide to do, in the same way we judge the draft.

Good lord this is such a desperate reach.

The fact this trade came up a few weeks before the deadline in a year with an expansion draft puts so many unknown variables into the mix. From number of contracts and roster implications at the present moment, to protections lists, to organization depth to considering waiver status for next year...

We have *no idea* who was and wasn't interested, what was offered by those who were, or who Ottawa was more inclined to move him to.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Out of curiosity,

Who would you rather have?

Nail Yakupov for a conditonal 3rd (turns into a 2nd if he scores 15 goals)

or

Curtis Lazar for a 2nd

Lazar all day. Although you could be a dingus and acquire Yak and sit him after 14 goals and then you have both!

But seriously, Lazar.

[Poe969]

I"d take Lazar because if you really wanted Yak, you could get him for free in the summer. You'd still have to give up assets for Lazar either way.

[joejoe3]

Was at the flames' luncheon today and Burke opened up a Q&A session.

When Lazar was brought up, he said:
1) player brought in not to impact this year, plus team is on a 5 game winning streak, does not want to change the lineup
2) great player with leadership skills, felt ottawa rushed him through the process.
3) allow Lazar to sit and learn the system, will let coaches do their job
4) Lazar seems out of shape and lack confidence, believe it's due to the situation he was put through in ottawa this season.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by joejoe3

Was at the flames' luncheon today and Burke opened up a Q&A session.

When Lazar was brought up, he said:
1) player brought in not to impact this year, plus team is on a 5 game winning streak, does not want to change the lineup
4) Lazar seems out of shape and lack confidence, believe it's due to the situation he was put through in ottawa this season.

If that's the case we may not see him the lineup at all this season unless the Flames clinch a spot and he gets a few games in after that.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Out of curiosity,

Who would you rather have?

Nail Yakupov for a conditonal 3rd (turns into a 2nd if he scores 15 goals)

or

Curtis Lazar for a 2nd

Yakupov, for sure.

He can drive the net, and he's got a release. He wont be an elite NHLer, but he's got the tools to be a trigger man for Gaudreau, in the same mold as Cheechoo, Burrows, et al.

It'd probably take some time to beat the bad habits out of him. But not as long as it would take to develop a 2nd round pick into the middling AHLer which that pick would most likely yield.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Yakupov, for sure.

He can drive the net, and he's got a release. He wont be an elite NHLer, but he's got the tools to be a trigger man for Gaudreau, in the same mold as Cheechoo, Burrows, et al.

It'd probably take some time to beat the bad habits out of him. But not as long as it would take to develop a 2nd round pick into the middling AHLer which that pick would most likely yield.

Attitude and character go a lot further than a good release. Yakupov is someone I'd avoid over Lazar based specifically on the fact that Yakupov has a bad attitude towards the game which is exactly why he has plummeted so far from 1st overall, to being traded for garbage, to the point where he's expected to be KHL bound by the start of next year. With Lazar you got a player who acknowledges he's been bad and acknowledges he wants/knows he can be a bigger player. Clear choice is Lazar IMO.

[BigJim]

Originally Posted by joejoe3

Was at the flames' luncheon today and Burke opened up a Q&A session.

When Lazar was brought up, he said:
1) player brought in not to impact this year, plus team is on a 5 game winning streak, does not want to change the lineup
2) great player with leadership skills, felt ottawa rushed him through the process.
3) allow Lazar to sit and learn the system, will let coaches do their job
4) Lazar seems out of shape and lack confidence, believe it's due to the situation he was put through in ottawa this season.

Was there any discussion about Brandon Hickey and the plans for him?

[bigrangy]

I'd way rather have Yak for a conditional 3rd than Lazar for a 2nd.

Yakupov's "bad attitude" is a made up narrative in my opinion. He left his country at 16 to come play in North America, so the only reason he'd go back to the KHL would be if nobody wanted him here. He was always praised as being a good member of the community when he was in Edmonton (not hard to do in comparison to the other golden boys haha but that's just what I have heard).

Yakupov has top 6 talent but hasn't been able to put it together because he was badly, badly mishandled by the grease (Lazar has been heavily mismanaged as well) where Lazar doesn't really have a top 6 skillset. Lazar's contract situation is much better and will be cheaper to retain next season, but Yakupov actually offers a reasonable chance to be an impact forward.

Yakupov was damn near a point per game last season when he played with McDickbutt, then the Oilers, in another incredible move, decide to staple him to Letestu for much of the rest of the year. The year before, he was paired up with Arcobello and bad Draisaitl until the Oilers finally had a good idea and brought in Derek Roy to play with him. He then proceeded to put up about half a point per game (granted it was garbage time) when they played together.

Yakupov hasn't had a stable centre in his whole career and has still managed to at least produce. Defensively, he is definitely nothing special, but there remains a reasonable chance (at least in my opinion) that he can be a productive top 6 wing option, and I'd much rather have a chance of that than the much lower chance that Lazar has. Lazar projects to me a lot like a Brouwer, while Yakupov projects like a Versteeg. Neither will be too special but I know which player I'd rather have on my team.

[Robbob]

Yakupov has been stapled to the bench in STL as well. I think he needs a lot of work when he doesn't have the puck. Too much of a liability it seems considering he has only been in 11 games this calendar year. Last game he played in was February 16th.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Yakupov is terrible. Lazar easily.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

I'd way rather have Yak for a conditional 3rd than Lazar for a 2nd.

Yakupov's "bad attitude" is a made up narrative in my opinion. He left his country at 16 to come play in North America, so the only reason he'd go back to the KHL would be if nobody wanted him here. He was always praised as being a good member of the community when he was in Edmonton (not hard to do in comparison to the other golden boys haha but that's just what I have heard).

Yakupov has top 6 talent but hasn't been able to put it together because he was badly, badly mishandled by the grease (Lazar has been heavily mismanaged as well) where Lazar doesn't really have a top 6 skillset. Lazar's contract situation is much better and will be cheaper to retain next season, but Yakupov actually offers a reasonable chance to be an impact forward.

Yakupov was damn near a point per game last season when he played with McDickbutt, then the Oilers, in another incredible move, decide to staple him to Letestu for much of the rest of the year. The year before, he was paired up with Arcobello and bad Draisaitl until the Oilers finally had a good idea and brought in Derek Roy to play with him. He then proceeded to put up about half a point per game (granted it was garbage time) when they played together.

Yakupov hasn't had a stable centre in his whole career and has still managed to at least produce. Defensively, he is definitely nothing special, but there remains a reasonable chance (at least in my opinion) that he can be a productive top 6 wing option, and I'd much rather have a chance of that than the much lower chance that Lazar has. Lazar projects to me a lot like a Brouwer, while Yakupov projects like a Versteeg. Neither will be too special but I know which player I'd rather have on my team.

Produced? He has 3 goals this year. 8 the year before that. You can argue he has more upside, but at this point there is probably enough data to suggest neither Yak or Lazar are particularly well suited for top 6. If that is true, I would rather pick the guy with a higher floor (bottom 6, penalty killer, energy guy). Lazar for me.

[joejoe3]

Originally Posted by BigJim

Was there any discussion about Brandon Hickey and the plans for him?

Sorry no

[Gaskal]

Lazar vs Yakupov might be one of these situations.



Particularly close to the expansion draft. Let Vegas get him for free... or recuperate a late-round pick? Your move, Blues.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by joejoe3

Was at the flames' luncheon today and Burke opened up a Q&A session.

When Lazar was brought up, he said:
1) player brought in not to impact this year, plus team is on a 5 game winning streak, does not want to change the lineup
2) great player with leadership skills, felt ottawa rushed him through the process.
3) allow Lazar to sit and learn the system, will let coaches do their job
4) Lazar seems out of shape and lack confidence, believe it's due to the situation he was put through in ottawa this season.

That seems very concerning. You would think a guy who is complaining about icetime would be working hard off the ice and in practice, doing everything possible to better his situation.

That said, our staff will obviously be on top of it if Burke is mentioning it.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

That seems very concerning. You would think a guy who is complaining about icetime would be working hard off the ice and in practice, doing everything possible to better his situation.

That said, our staff will obviously be on top of it if Burke is mentioning it.

Being out of shape is probably a result of having mono at the beginning of the season.