[Trade] Sens trade Lazar and Kostka to the Flames for a 2nd + Jokipakka

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Baertschi has been out for nearly a month with a concussion. This has to be his 3rd or 4th major concussion. Heck with the fact that he's a less than 0.5 ppg player, he's also injury prone and always one hit away from being out long term. I would do that trade again today without blinking knowing that it led to Rasmus Andersson.

Yeah, even setting the concussion concerns aside with his current production levels Baertschi probably isn't long for the NHL. No versatility to his game, plays one way, can't move up and down your roster etc. These players tend to float from a bad team or two then are out.

Lazar plays wing or center. Two-way game, speed, good defensive awareness and has been a leader in junior on a Memorial Cup and World Junior winning teams. Lazar with similar production to Baertschi (15 goals 35-40 points) is stil the better player. Just brings more potentially.

The league has changed over the last 10+ years where it's truly not your top two lines anymore, it's top three. The muckers and hanger ons are limited to that line, not the 3rd anymore. Valuable players patrol third lines and if Lazar can play center or wing there, or be a complimentary player on the other two it'll be a great fit for the Flames.

[gvitaly]

A bit late to the party, though I think some of you are treating a 2nd round pick as an unknown. The organization has a rough idea of where they will be drafting and the players available at those spots. I am also pretty sure our GM has a pretty good idea of what this pick will be worth in a trade. In that case the pro scouts will evaluate each scenario of trading the player they would have picked for Lazar. The same way they did with the Hamilton trade, they decided that the player is better than who they(not Ottawa) would have been targeting.

In that case, I think its a win-win for both teams, so I voted neutral. In the future it will most likely be a swap that will neither make nor break either team.

[mrdonkey]

If I had to guess, Lazar probably tops out as a 3rd line RW/C. A guy that is nice to have as depth and maybe gets you 20/20 in a good year but is not by any means irreplaceable.

Sounds like the kid is a well spoken leader though, and is young enough to grow with the rest of our core. If we're lucky he comes in as a cost-controlled, younger version of what we were hoping to get with Troy Brouwer (or Lance Bouma before he cashed in and somehow forgot how to play). Those kinds of players do become valuable come playoff time, so it'll be interesting to see how this move pans out as the Flames move closer towards becoming a consistent playoff threat. Lazar may be an important part of that even if he's unlikely to put up meaningful numbers.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by The Professor

So will he be around for practice today? Curious to see his in the Flames silks, where they play him etc. Is he expected to play on Friday?

Kostka to the A?

My personal guess is that he will sit press box for 2-3 games learning the system before making a debut. No need to rush him into playing games for us just yet.

[Gaudfather]

For what it's worth both Kyper and McLean said they liked the Lazar trade for Calgary today on Hockey Central.

[oldschoolcalgary]

i think one can't judge Baertschi versus Lazar on points alone anyways...

Sven, that's his game... if he isn't scoring, does he honestly bring anything else to the table?

From every thing i've read Lazar has always been projected more as a two way player, never a scorer... his stats and his advanced stats are pretty lousy currently... i don't think anyone disputes that. Has he reached his ceiling? we don't know... BT obviously does not think that...

i think we are arguing about rolling the red dice versus rolling the white dice to be honest when discussing Lazar versus a 2nd round pick.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I would think he has to come close to a 20 goal scorer for this to be a win down the road for Calgary.



You don't give up a second rounder for forechecking and decent without the puck. That's Lance Bouma.



Lazar will need to be an above average third liner for this to be a win IMO, because you can get an average third liner for free from free agency.



Can he be that player? Maybe.

The difference between Lazar and a UFA third liner is he is in the young 20s age range. I'm looking at it as yet another kick at the 2013 draft can. So far the Flames haven't graduated any of their lower 1st rounders from that draft and didn't have one in 2015, so need to beef up that age range. (The other difference with a UFA is proven production, but I digress)

I'm not having much patience for the endless parsing of the value of a second round pick. They paid futures for a player who can contribute now and should hit their prime in the next few years as the Flames start to seriously compete. Whether it was a good 2nd or a bad 2nd is not that relevant.

Ultimately it comes down to how he performs. On paper he looks pretty meh so far but if he contributes in the next few years then the trade worked as intended.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Yeah, even setting the concussion concerns aside with his current production levels Baertschi probably isn't long for the NHL. No versatility to his game, plays one way, can't move up and down your roster etc. These players tend to float from a bad team or two then are out.

Lazar plays wing or center. Two-way game, speed, good defensive awareness and has been a leader in junior on a Memorial Cup and World Junior winning teams. Lazar with similar production to Baertschi (15 goals 35-40 points) is stil the better player. Just brings more potentially.

The league has changed over the last 10+ years where it's truly not your top two lines anymore, it's top three. The muckers and hanger ons are limited to that line, not the 3rd anymore. Valuable players patrol third lines and if Lazar can play center or wing there, or be a complimentary player on the other two it'll be a great fit for the Flames.

All true, plus one thing that Sven also doesn't have - he plays physical. He actually likes playing physical and using his body to actually hit guys.

It never ceases to amaze me as how people get so hung up over Sven. He really wasn't that good. Calgary didn't mismanage him - he just refused to put on his big boy pants and play a mature game. Heck, he even said so as much after his first year in Van. He ended up being one of those dime a dozen players from the CHL with outstanding CHL offensive prowess who just don't have enough of a repertoire to translate into the NHL. He has found a niche in Van, but unless he takes a few more steps he will eventually get pushed out of there when that team eventually adds good players.

My prediction: Lazar turns into a fan favorite by next season. Why?

I do think he will regain some scoring touch (nothing crazy to start, just some scoring), but it will be his constant speed and work-ethic, along with his hitting, that will make him well-thought of.

People really loved Byron here (and so did I, though I absolutely thought he was a useless career AHL'er for the first couple of seasons). Lazar will bring those same elements that made Byron somewhat of fan favorite. Kid just works and skates for miles, and loves laying the body. He will be very effective on the forecheck.

I would be happy if he ends up becoming a solid 2-way physical player that chips-in offensively now and then, but I think he will be more than that. I think he will eventually end up on Bennett's line - either as Bennett's center, or Bennett's winger - and the two of them will drive the opposition crazy. They both play very similar games (though Bennett has a higher upside). Lazar is probably more physical and nasty than Bennett, and has that same speed and non-stop motor.

There is a lot to like about this trade. People will slowly be won over by this kid.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think that if he ends up being an average 3rd liner it is a win.
You can get an average third liner from free agency but you have to overpay dramatically to do that. You are better served to develop one internally.
Flawed logic.

I don't agree that you have to overpay for average third liners in free agency. Maybe for 2/3rd line tweeners.

Average third liners aren't usually in demand and I think you see some pretty good bargains on these types every year.

We are talking about a team's 8th or 9th best forward here. Your Kris Versteegs.

[Resolute 14]

Much as I find it stupid and unnecessary to rehash the Baertschi trade yet again, if he's trucking along at a .5 PPG pace, he will be in the NHL for a while. Its those concussions that I would worry about.

[REDVAN]

I think a lot of people here are hoping for a Baertschi type player.

I'm hoping for another Curtis comparison: Glencross.

As much as he was hated towards the end, streaky, but he was pretty physical, wore the A, and could score 20. I hope that's what we end up with in Lazar.

[The Fonz]

"Looking for a winger with an edge"

I'm happy it was Lazar and not Ott or Burrows.
Voted 'Like it'.

[killer_carlson]

I also like that Lazar has already had one incident where he got the better of McDavid and called him out about it. I think that might happen again.

[sureLoss]

[PepsiFree]

Bennett Brouwer Lazar line? I like it

[Toonage]

Allow me to jump to conclusions - so that would likely mean Bouma-Stajan-Versteeg unless Gulutzan decided to move Ferland back to the 4th line for some odd reason.
Edit - nevermind, I see Wills updating the lines and Lazar is an extra

[Badgers Nose]

Yeah, the smiling assassin could be a nice foil to get McJesus distracted when the teams play. I hope he has the ability to get under guys skin.

[OmegaV4]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Yeah, the smiling assassin could be a nice foil to get McJesus distracted when the teams play. I hope he has the ability to get under guys skin.

Gotta love that smirk.

[sureLoss]

He is an extra forward at practice today:

Derek Wills @Fan960Wills
#Flames lines at practice:
Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Versteeg-Bennett-Brouwer
Bouma-Stajan-Chiasson
Hamilton-Lazar

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I would think he has to come close to a 20 goal scorer for this to be a win down the road for Calgary.

You don't give up a second rounder for forechecking and decent without the puck. That's Lance Bouma.

Out of curiosity, I went back to 2009 to see how full of #### you are.

In that time, here are the guys who have hit 20 goals taken in the second round:

• Toffoli, Zucker
• Saad, Jenner
• Kucherov
• Silfverberg
• O’Reilly, Pirri, Tatar

That's nine players. LOL. 240 players were taken. A 3.75% hit rate for those players to become 20 goal scorers. That % may increase, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

It would seem to me if you can get a 21 year old Lance Bouma with a second round pick making a minimal salary, you would think it'd be considered a win.