[Trade] Sens trade Lazar and Kostka to the Flames for a 2nd + Jokipakka

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by polak

Disappointed. That 2nd could have been a PK Subban or Patrice Bergeron. It could have even been a Curtis Lazar!

There, I fixed that for you.

[polak]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Because you're acting like the 2nd has more value than it does. Overreacting again. This trade is a risk, like drafting a 2nd is. arguing the difference between this trade or drafting someone with the 2nd is so small that it's virtually pointless. Moreso in the weakest draft in years.

I'm saying it has more value than a guy who has 1 point this year in 33 games.

[Galakanokis]

Fine by me, needed forward depth and got it. Decent upside player for an expendable D man and a mediocre pick. What's not to like?

Disappointed in Jokipakka but it just didn't work. Thought there was potential there but maybe the Flames are happy with the progress others are making in Stockton.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't like this deal.

Price is way too high for a team like the Flames already bleeding picks.

Wrong philosophical direction.

The 3rd round pick was for a 26/27 year old top 4 Dman who might just be rounding our top 4 perfectly right before our eyes. I take that over a 3rd any day.

The 2nd is for a 22 year old, so it's not like they are wasting picks on pure rentals, if they were I'd completely agree with you.

There is potential long term upside with these moves, so I'm ok with the gamble.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Maybe Lazar shifts Bennett to the wing

If this is the end result and the Flames get more offensive output from Bennett down the stretch drive than I think it's an OK trade.

If the Flames think Lazar is a potential long term fit for the Flames in the 3rd/4th line centre position with an eye to Stajan moving on that could be solid justification for me to make this move.

HIs lack of arbitration rights are it for me. If he can play a legitimate shift for the Flames in the bottom six and the Flames can re-sign him this offseason for ~1 million I think that could be a good move.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Not a big fan of the trade. Will have to see how he does in the lineup.

Frankly, I hope that lineup is the Stockton Heat line-up. He can have a chance to earn a spot in training camp next year but this year he should go to the farm for the remainder.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by polak

I'm saying it has more value than a guy who has 1 point this year in 33 games.

by what logic? him playing 33 games has him ahead of picks in that range


IN AN AVERAGE DRAFT

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by New Era

Lazar need to impress, and hopefully that is in Stockton. I hate it when the Flames trade for questionable prospects from other organizations and then slot them into the lineup ahead of their own prospects who have been slugging through it in a crappy development system. Lazar should be measured against his peers on the farm, then earn a call up.

To be fair, Lazar has played over 170 games in the NHL, which is a *lot* more than most prospects in Stockton. Why wouldn't they start him in the NHL?

[ComixZone]

...why are people talking about Lazar to C ahead of Bennett? Bennett has proven more, and has a higher ceiling than Lazar.

What the hell is with everyone's hate for Bennett (Kerr/Francis continue to yammer on about it). The lack of patience with developing players and the "grass is always greener" mindset is crazy. Lazar is a project. He has to prove he has a ceiling. Bennett has proven that. Bennett's play as of late has been great.

Lazar pushes Bennett to the wing? Good grief.

[Eric Vail]

This trade reminds me of when they added Hnat Domenichelli.

I bet it winds up the same way. The second round pick was unlikely to make it in the NHL, too.

meh.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

They swapped flexibility for someone elses mostly developed asset.

The flames used a 2nd round pick as part of the Hamilton acquisition. The Flames now have 5 picks in 7 rounds in the upcoming draft and if they re-sign Stone and Elliott they will have 4 picks next year.

As Textcritic says, if the flames are going to compete in the next 5 years they are going to do with with the talent already in the system. Well, if that's the case, the Flames are in huge f'ing trouble because they don't have anything in the system, all their bluechippers are contributing NHL'ers.

I obviously disagree. My point was that What is in the system and in the long-term plans for the Flames actually looks like a solid base on which to build a contender inside of the next five years.

The Flames are goign to have to go out and buy a significant asset at some point and the philosophical direction should be accumulating a quantity of picks in order to make trades to acquire impact players without having the complication of sending significant salary the other way.

This team is entering a point of transition, and adding a significant asset at a point in time when they are ready to compete was always going to be necessary. I just happen to think that that day is within the next few years.

Lazar isn't some massive mistake, but I don't see much difference between acquiring him and acquiring Shinkaruk, except one was significantly more costly to acquire than the other in my opinion. You're banking on an improbable turnaround to justify the expense of the acquisition. What it does for the Flames is it removes flexibility in future acquisitions which have the potential to have a greater total impact on the franchise.

That is probably true but circumstances introduced by a weak draft and expansion likely dictate that this year's second round pick is not altogether valuable enough to make the kind of difference you are hoping for.

I don't hate the player, I just hate the fact the Flames are once again deficit spending with draft picks. You'd think they would have learned their lesson by now.

In the first place I am not convinced that this necessarily signals a course of action to which the Flames are committed—that from this point forward they will be a deficit spending team. Deficit spending this year could make better sense than doing so next year or the year after; it remains to be seen. In the second place no team can hope to win a championship without entering a cycle in which they need to spend futures for the present. This was always going to happen, although it looks to me like an eminently manageable situation at present.

[dino7c]

Lazar is better than any RWer in the Stockton

[belsarius]

At 22 Backlund did have as many points in half the games. He also was in and out of the lineup for the next two years and didn't really catch until the last couple years. Lots of people were calling to give up on him for years, sending him to the KHL and never to return and looks what he has become.

I'm not saying Lazar will develop to be as good as Backlund. I'm not saying they are even similar players, I'm just saying that every player has a different developmental path and some are NHL ready at 19, and some at 25.

I think a 2nd to work with the guy is worth it, sure it may pan out badly and the pick turns out yuge, but its all a crap shoot and if the scouts and BT see something they like in the kid then I think its a good deal.

[Prufrock]

I like this trade, though I've been a fan of Lazar's since junior. Hopefully he's able to find his scoring touch again and can develop into a good Top 9 guy.

I'm hoping this turns out like Nino Niederreiter. First round guy, rushed to the NHL, losses confidence and can't score, gets traded for a fresh start and _____

Do I think Lazar is as talented as El Nino? No, but I hope this change is what Lazar needs.

[yourbestfriend]

What has Lazar done in the NHL to warrant pushing Bennett to the wing?
I'm not opposed to moving Bennett to the wing, but common, for Lazar? Hell no. He might not even make it into the line up let alone take Bennett's spot.

As an FYI, Bennett put more points in his rookie season than Lazar in 176games.
Show some faith

[dino7c]

I get the feeling this thread will be bumped a lot in the coming years

[polak]

Originally Posted by dino7c

by what logic? him playing 33 games has him ahead of picks in that range


IN AN AVERAGE DRAFT

All that means is that Ottawa is stupid and rushed him. GP doesn't mean anything if you don't produce.

[killer_carlson]

I like Lazar and think he's well suited to be a guy playing in a Canadian market. I think he will be a solid middle six player.

he's a great interview. Once he establishes a regular role with the team i think he can take some of the pressure off of Johnny and a few others.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

...why are people talking about Lazar to C ahead of Bennett? Bennett has proven more, and has a higher ceiling than Lazar.

What the hell is with everyone's hate for Bennett (Kerr/Francis continue to yammer on about it). The lack of patience with developing players and the "grass is always greener" mindset is crazy. Lazar is a project. He has to prove he has a ceiling. Bennett has proven that. Bennett's play as of late has been great.

Lazar pushes Bennett to the wing? Good grief.

Eric Francis‏ @EricFrancis 53s54 seconds ago
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My first question for Treliving revolves around whether the Lazar acquisition opens the door for a Bennett shift to the wing.

[FlamesAddiction]

I suppose it is worth mentioning that comparing it to most of the other trades today isn't really fair as this isn't a rental situation.

I do wonder about how this will affect the expansion protection list though.