[Trade] Flames Acquire Michael Stone From Arizona for Draft Picks

[locsofblu]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

He is likely our most valuable asset "in play".

He'll be moved and he'll generate a fair bit of a return. i'm guest a late 2nd or better.

By finally getting a number 4 defencman and finally looking decent on the back end we are going to trade one of our better defencman this year to be back to the exact same problem we just fixed? Lol sure.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by JTech780

An analytics blogger is basically running the Coyotes and that's how we were able to get Stone on the cheap.

You can clearly see that he's letting analytics drive his decision making. First he targets Dougie Hamilton, fancy stats darling, even though he's not available, and now he trades away Stone, fancy stats goat this year, for less value than any of Russell (barely got a contract), Gelinas (waivers this year), or Polak (I get traded every season) returned at last years deadline.

I hope Treliving is having daily discussions with this kid.

[EVERLAST]

G G is pretty fond of Derek and they have a history. He's contributed very nicely here.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

This bothers me.

2013-14: "dragged down Yandle"
- He was 23 years old and it was his 1st full season. Short of being one of the leagues greatest D-men, all D-men will drag their partner down at that age.

2014-16: "propped up by Ekman-Larsson"
- Is this a passive-aggressive way of saying that Stone played pretty well for 2 seasons?

2016-17: "seems to have killed Goligoski"
- Stone had knee surgery to repair torn ACL & MCL, and was out for 6 months - he wasn't cleared to play until ARZ's 4th game of the season. Three weeks later, he suffered an upper body injury and missed another 6 games. I don't think any D-man would be playing up to his abilities under these conditions.

The stats nerds need to realize that there are factors that affect a player's game, which cannot be quantified.

Advanced stats guys only see numbers and wouldn't know a good player if Wayne Greyzky smacked them in the face.

[Strange Brew]

I don't watch much Coyote hockey at all so have to take other's words for his play. But I am OK with giving up a 3rd rounder for a chance at being an honest playoff team.

If Flames re-sign him and he gets plucked by Vegas, I guess we still lose the 5th rounder?

Or maybe we trade for a 2nd in a week.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

He is likely our most valuable asset "in play".

He'll be moved and he'll generate a fair bit of a return. i'm guest a late 2nd or better.

No, he won't be. The Flames without Engelland are the softest team in the entire sport.

[Flash Walken]

If the flames think the player is just a year away from potentially rebounding from a serious injury, a lackluster season heading into free agency could be fortuitous for the flames if the player is able to bounce back.

Do we have any kind of speculation on what his salary demands might be? If he's making 4 million now, does his most recent season force him to take a reduction or is that wishful thinking for a defender under 30?

The personal connection to the city really throws off what to think of this move. Is this a Cory sarich type situation?

[Reggie Dunlop]

A bit of a reclamation project at a low cost. Adds blue line depth.

Re-signing him could pay dividends down the road.

Solid deal.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

This bothers me.

2013-14: "dragged down Yandle"
- He was 23 years old and it was his 1st full season. Short of being one of the leagues greatest D-men, all D-men will drag their partner down at that age.

2014-16: "propped up by Ekman-Larsson"
- Is this a passive-aggressive way of saying that Stone played pretty well for 2 seasons?

2016-17: "seems to have killed Goligoski"
- Stone had knee surgery to repair torn ACL & MCL, and was out for 6 months - he wasn't cleared to play until ARZ's 4th game of the season. Three weeks later, he suffered an upper body injury and missed another 6 games. I don't think any D-man would be playing up to his abilities under these conditions.

The stats nerds need to realize that there are factors that affect a player's game, which cannot be quantified.

yup. It's actually pretty amazing, even without going into detail like you did - it's suggested that it was Stone's fault whenever a pairing didn't work, yet it was solely his partner's accomplishment when it did work. That assessment is incredibly lopsided and biased IMO, especially for a stats guy.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't watch much Coyote hockey at all so have to take other's words for his play. But I am OK with giving up a 3rd rounder for a chance at being an honest playoff team.

If Flames re-sign him and he gets plucked by Vegas, I guess we still lose the 5th rounder?

Or maybe we trade for a 2nd in a week.

If the Flames entertain re-signing Stone then I would imagine it will not occur until after the expansion draft.

[activeStick]

It's deals like this that make me wonder why some people feel that losing Treliving wouldn't be a big deal. Guy comes out top of the vast majority of his deals.

[united]

He's nothing more now than a 5/6 guy who has had a really tough year - prior to his injuries he was serviceable in an enhanced role due to playing with great partners. In that sense, he could be a good buy low candidate. He's a desperately-needed short-term upgrade over Wideman and Engelland, but the Flames should be looking elsewhere long-term barring a big turnaround from Stone.

Worth noting he has been a healthy scratch a few times this season on the League's second-worst defensive team (by goals against and shots against).

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Advanced stats guys only see numbers and wouldn't know a good player if Wayne Greyzky smacked them in the face.

Tunnel vision with a sprinkle of group think has been an issue with the hockey analytics community since it's inception.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

This seems like a very minor move to me. May be a marginal improvement on an area that needed help, but doesn't seem likely to tip any scales. No big impact expected for a team in a playoff race.
I hope he reaches his old form.

whoa, don't get too excited. He's an upgrade to our top 4, it's not a minor move. If this move gets Brodie back to being consistently Brodie this trade is very big for this team. Could kill 2 birds with one stone, yes that pun was intended.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

He is likely our most valuable asset "in play".

He'll be moved and he'll generate a fair bit of a return. i'm guest a late 2nd or better.

Depends on how the Flames do before the deadline. If we're still in the playoff race then I think there's very little chance they move Engelland, I doubt he'll be in play. If we lose a ton in the next 2 weeks then maybe he is made available.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by activeStick

It's deals like this that make me wonder why some people feel that losing Treliving wouldn't be a big deal. Guy comes out top of the vast majority of his deals.

Losing Treliving would set this franchise back several years. He doesn't panic, all of his moves seem meticulously thought out.

Does it suck that Elliott isn't as good as we hoped? Yes. Treliving had the chance to get a goalie who'd put up eye popping numbers for the better part of five years. He didn't have to give up Matthew Tkachuk (which he would have in order to acquire Bishop), and he then didn't compound the mistake by extending Elliott after a great preseason.

Brouwer is barely off his career norms and a slight downturn in production has to be expected in year one of a new deal on a new team. Frolik was lamented most of his first year too.

You can criticize him for not addressing certain faults, but from where I'm sitting, he's had to prioritize. Maybe he should have gone after Martin Jones last year instead of Dougie. But that wasn't an obvious decision at the time and it's not much clearer 18 months later. Dougie has been the best D on the team most of the year. Sure it'd be nice not to have a tire fire in net, but there's only so much Brad can do at once.

He's a steady hand guiding the ship. What else do you want from your GM? If you designed one in a lab, how much would you really deviate from Treliving beyond 'genius who hits on all his draft picks'?

[1qqaaz]

Stone was drafted in the third round.

He basically developed according to plan, and should now be at his peak. He he was still just traded for a 3rd (and a conditional 5th).

It's weird how draft pick values work.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Stone was drafted in the third round.

He basically developed according to plan, and should now be at his peak. He he was still just traded for a 3rd (and a conditional 5th).

It's weird how draft pick values work.

26 is not a peak age for defensemen.

[Geeoff]

I'm a little concerned about his injury history but the price is right and the Flames 4-8 d-men suck, so it's worth a shot.

[nightfx]

Would've preferred the other Stone but this will do.