Man who beheaded fellow bus passenger wants to live on his own

[Dion]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Nine years of therapy, monitoring and medical treatment and not being a threat anymore. And then you get back to this same old, doctors are wrong and I know more than any doctor because once a nut always a nut in my books. Have at it.

We don't have any similar cases like Li's where we can look back on to see what happened. We're heading into uncharted territoy where we have to rely on what his health professionals have to say. I'm not saying they're wrong, it's just I feel uneasy with Li given an unconditional dsicharge.

I would prefer he had conditions added to his discharge where he has to be monitored to be sure he takes his meds.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by pylon

It's amazing how the people that actually remember the crime in vivid detail are being ignored by the system, and left to suffer. Millions spent on Li, and the rest of them got a big FU from the health care system. One first responder driven to suicide. Even worse, for the family knowing Li is a free man now. What an absolute nightmare for them, and added suffering for the rest of their lives.

Nothing will ever convince me this is the right thing to do when you factor in the collateral damage, and ongoing victimization that continues to be forced on the true victims.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...free-1.3979368

Originally Posted by pylon

Is it fair that the surrounding neighbors should not only have to live the anxiety this guy is steps away, but also have their property values plummet in that scenario? Because if it became public knowledge, regardless of the community, or social caliber of the community, it's gonna cost ya.

I'm not a NIMBY within reason. But I would absolutely under no circumstances want Li living next door to my family primarily for their safety, but I also don't want to flush the value of my home down the toilet.

Heard an interview on the Charles Adler show on the radio last night. It was an interview with Tim's mother that Charles discussed in light of Li's discharge.

Pretty sad to hear and I don't blame the mother for anything she says. But what I found most disheartening was that Li was able to have access to all these treatments, therapy and courses, all on the tax payer's dime for someone who is not even from Canada. Meanwhile if Tim's family, who I think should have priority in cases like this, was left to fend for themselves. And Tim's mother is being made out as a nuisance for disagreeing.

Can't say that I disgree with what Charles or Carol say. Li is being made into this poster child and a victim in all of this. When in reality it's Tim and his family who are the true victims. Some in this thread might not agree with all she says. But she's in the unfortunate position of being forced into this position.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by pylon

It's amazing how the people that actually remember the crime in vivid detail are being ignored by the system, and left to suffer. Millions spent on Li, and the rest of them got a big FU from the health care system. One first responder driven to suicide. Even worse, for the family knowing Li is a free man now. What an absolute nightmare for them, and added suffering for the rest of their lives.

Nothing will ever convince me this is the right thing to do when you factor in the collateral damage, and ongoing victimization that continues to be forced on the true victims.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...free-1.3979368

Originally Posted by pylon

I'm arguing the Health Care system should ramp it up, and without any cost considerations, and no questions asked offer these people the absolute best treatment possible.... like Li was afforded.

Heard an interview on the Charles Adler show on the radio last night. It was an interview with Tim's mother that Charles discussed in light of Li's discharge.

Pretty sad to hear and I don't blame the mother for anything she says. But what I found most disheartening was that Li was able to have access to all these treatments, therapy and courses, all on the tax payer's dime for someone who is not even from Canada. Meanwhile Tim's family, who I think should have priority in cases like this, was left to fend for themselves. And Tim's mother is being made out as a nuisance in all of this for disagreeing with Li's release.

Can't say that I disagree with what Charles or Carol say. Li is being made into this poster child and a victim in all of this. When in reality it's Tim and his family who are the true victims. Some in this thread might not agree with all she says. But she's in the unfortunate position of being forced into this position.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

But what I found most disheartening was that Li was able to have access to all these treatments, therapy and courses, all on the tax payer's dime for someone who is not even from Canada.

To be clear, Li, like me legally immigrated to this country. He became a citizen of Canada in 2006.

Meanwhile Tim's family, who I think should have priority in cases like this, was left to fend for themselves. And Tim's mother is being made out as a nuisance in all of this for disagreeing with Li's release.

That is wrong, they should not have been thrown to the wind.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Heard an interview on the Charles Adler show on the radio last night. It was an interview with Tim's mother that Charles discussed in light of Li's discharge.

Pretty sad to hear and I don't blame the mother for anything she says. But what I found most disheartening was that Li was able to have access to all these treatments, therapy and courses, all on the tax payer's dime for someone who is not even from Canada. Meanwhile Tim's family, who I think should have priority in cases like this, was left to fend for themselves. And Tim's mother is being made out as a nuisance in all of this for disagreeing with Li's release.

Can't say that I disagree with what Charles or Carol say. Li is being made into this poster child and a victim in all of this. When in reality it's Tim and his family who are the true victims. Some in this thread might not agree with all she says. But she's in the unfortunate position of being forced into this position.

That isn't a failure of our justice system. It's a failure of our health care system. In general most in this thread would favour more mental health spending which helps victims and prevents future victims before the justice system gets involved.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Pretty sad to hear and I don't blame the mother for anything she says. But what I found most disheartening was that Li was able to have access to all these treatments, therapy and courses, all on the tax payer's dime for someone who is not even from Canada. Meanwhile if Tim's family, who I think should have priority in cases like this, was left to fend for themselves. And Tim's mother is being made out as a nuisance for disagreeing.

The bolded line is ugly and unneeded. Legal immigrants being considered second class citizens (which is the only way to take that comment btw) is something we shouldn't be seeing in this country, it's extremely anti Canadian and I guarantee you there's lots of immigrants on CP that cringed reading that.

But agreed with the absurdity of Vincent Li having full access to all necessary treatment while the rest affected are left to fend for themselves. It's not absurd that Li gets the treatment, but that the rest don't. That simply shouldn't happen.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by jayswin

But agreed with the absurdity of Vincent Li having full access to all necessary treatment while the rest affected are left to fend for themselves. It's not absurd that Li gets the treatment, but that the rest don't. That simply shouldn't happen.

I am left to wonder just what the true situation is there. I am not saying there are not issues with how the program actually is administered, but Manitoba appears to have a pretty comprehensive list of entitlements enshrined in legislation:

https://www.gov.mb.ca/justice/victim...pensation.html

Compensation for Victims of Crime Program

The Compensation for Victims of Crime program provides compensation to victims who suffer personal injury, hardships or expenses as a result of certain crimes. These crimes are outlined in the Victims’ Rights Regulation of The Victims’ Bill of Rights Act. The program is also available to specific relatives and dependants of victims of homicide in Manitoba.

If someone has been injured as a result of a crime, or someone is an immediate family member of a person killed due to a crime, that person may be entitled to compensation. People may also be compensated if they were injured while helping a police officer or while trying to prevent a crime.

To apply for compensation, the offender does not need to have been caught, but a formal report must be made to the police.

Compensation may cover reasonable expenses (not already covered by another source) resulting from a crime, including:

payment of medical expenses (prescription drug costs, ambulance bills)
replacement of damaged clothing or items seized by police as evidence
dental treatment, replacement or repair of dentures
replacement or repair of prescription eyeglasses
payment for grief therapy or other counselling services
compensation for lost wages for victims who have been disabled or for dependants of victims who were fatally injured
support payments for dependents
payment for rehabilitation or retraining
compensation for permanent disability
payment of funeral expenses

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The bolded line is ugly and unneeded. Legal immigrants being considered second class citizens (which is the only way to take that comment btw) is something we shouldn't be seeing in this country, it's extremely anti Canadian and I guarantee you there's lots of immigrants on CP that cringed reading that.

.

I didn't mean it to come out that bad. My apologies if anyone was offended. What I was getting at was that Li was given access to all these services to help him and likely on the taxpayers dime (correct me if I'm wrong), while Tim's family received nothing and if they wanted help, it came out of their own pocket. That's what the mother was getting at, and IMO that's not fair at all.

My comment wasn't meant to be a shot at immigrants and I worded it very poorly. Again, I apologize. But rather it was a comment towards the lack of help offered to the victim's family. Meanwhile the guy who beheaded someone is put up on a silver platter as a poster child for mental health issues and seems to have gotten whatever medical services he needed to get better. As usual, the victim and their family are always the afterthought.

God forbid another terrible event happens similar to this where someone who is mentally ill causes harm to another person(s), once again the focus will be on the perpetrator and they help they need to get. And zilch for the victim and their families.

Edit: I see Mbates post above. It appears help is available. I do have some experience going through that process (in Alberta). 8 years ago my gf was viciously assaulted and had severe medical issues that happened from the assault. We applied to have those some of those services for her, in particular counselling sessions. What a struggle it was to get that help. No, it wasn't as easy as applying and next thing you know you're in treatment. It was pile after pile of paperwork, waiting, applying, more waiting. In the end, she got 2 counselling sessions out of it and a whole headache of dealing with paperwork, insurance companies who didn't give a crap about what happened, more waiting and being told time after time that she wasn't qualified to get certain services. 2 counselling sessions for getting the crap beat of her.

I'm not sure how it works for someone like Li or Degrood, but I can't imagine the process was that rigorous. Maybe their families do all the paperwork and waiting behind the scenes, I don't know. But I've heard of situations before where the victim's families say the help they receive is no where near enough compared to what the attacker gets.

[Schraderbrau]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

ok weird? But how is it a waste of money? Look I'm not happy with the unconditional release. But don't you think if Li goes forth and sins no more that we're saving a ton of money?

If we kept him in the jail system and untreated or badly treated for 20 years, it would cost a ton of money to clothes and feed him and at the end he'd probably be back on the streets with the same mental problems or worse ones then he has now.

Instead if everything goes right and he sticks to taking his meds we have someone that might actually be a plus positive instead of a net negative.

Now I'm not saying this is a catch all solution for dealing with violent criminals. Its not, there are a lot of entirely sane incredibly violent people out there who should be in jail for as long as possible. But Li isn't one of them.

As long as he sticks to his meds. But that's up to him now.

I haven't done the math but I'm guessing 30 seconds of 2,000 volts of electricity would have been a very cost effective alternative. Even with carbon tax factored in.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Schraderbrau

I haven't done the math but I'm guessing 30 seconds of 2,000 volts of electricity would have been a very cost effective alternative. Even with carbon tax factored in.

Really because the death penalty has proven historically to be more expensive than simple life in prison with or with out the carbon tax. It's also been highly effective at allowing innocent people to occasionally get killed.

[ASP#26525]

I agree with the others that have expressed their upset with the fact that Tim McLean is practically forgotten when he is the real victim here. His picture and story should be front and centre, not Li's, and Tim's family's priorities should be put first. In that regard, it is my personal opinion that Li should be housed in a mental institution, forever.

My cousin suffers from schizophrenia and I understand how devastating it is. She also hears voices, but rather than aliens, they are about the mafia and Lebanese terrorists. If she were to ever commit something as heinous as the act of beheading a man, I would support keeping her institutionalized forever too, and so would she.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by GGG

Really because the death penalty has proven historically to be more expensive than simple life in prison with or with out the carbon tax. It's also been highly effective at allowing innocent people to occasionally get killed.

It's only expensive because of lawyers, 20+ year appeals and delays, In Li's native China it would have been very cheap.

[Red Potato Standing By]

So you want Canada to become like China?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

It's only expensive because of lawyers, 20+ year appeals and delays, In Li's native China it would have been very cheap.

So would yours when wrongly convicted

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by GGG

So would yours when wrongly convicted

Schizo or not, If I'm chewing on someones head I just cut off in front of 40 witnesses you have my permission to take me out back and put a bullet in me.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Schizo or not, If I'm chewing on someones head I just cut off in front of 40 witnesses you have my permission to take me out back and put a bullet in me.

That's kinda my take on it.

If I committed something so heinous, vile, revolting and straight up evil, even in an altered state where I had no control, the second I had a lucid moment, I would do anything I could to end my life. Not only to erase it permanently from my mind, but to give the victims some shred of a feeling of justice.

However I would just prefer they killed me on the spot. How Li can live with himself going forward is pretty staggering to me.

[Red Potato Standing By]

So is that only if you are chewing his head that you would kill yourselves? Or would that include non gruesome deaths aswell(after all the victims family would be just as upset). Although I am sure victims killed by drunk drivers are just as upset (and some of those deaths can be pretty gruesome) would it be good form to kill yourself in that situation?

[savemedrzaius]

Well for all the people talking hypothetically "if this happened in China" something somewhat similar just happened in China.

Chinese man who beheaded noodle shop owner is mentally ill, with history of violence: report

The man who beheaded a noodle shop owner in central China after a row over the price of his meal suffers from mental illness and has a history of violence, according to a newspaper report.
The 22-year-old migrant worker, identified only by his family name Hu, was held by police for killing the restaurant owner in Wuhan in Hubei province on Saturday, the Huaxi Metropolis Daily reported.
Hu cut off the shop owner’s head with a kitchen cleaver after accusing the man of overcharging him one yuan (15 US cents) for each of the three bowls of noodles he had ordered.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/socie...ly-ill-history

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

Well for all the people talking hypothetically "if this happened in China" something somewhat similar just happened in China.

Somewhat similar I guess but it seems quite a bit different to me. Without knowing what was wrong with the guy it's pretty hard to draw a comparison.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Dion

We don't have any similar cases like Li's where we can look back on to see what happened. We're heading into uncharted territoy where we have to rely on what his health professionals have to say.

For the umpteenth time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Lortie

Been living in Ottawa/Gatineau society for the last 20 years.