Gulutzan's unique approach

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

If I'm not mistaken I heard Darryl Sutter doesn't say much if anything to the team after a game, unless it was positive reinforcement during a tough loss or losing streak.

At the time I thought that was odd and out of character, but it seams to make sense. I often refrain from from addressing co-workers and employees I'm upset with when I'm emotional, instead addressing them when I'm not so emotional.

It's because Darryl (a) doesn't say much, and (b) doesn't have to say much. From 2003/04 season:

It didn't seem like a momentous loss. On Nov. 4, the Flames left the ice despondently after a 3-0 loss to mighty Detroit. Not many fans had expected the seven-years-out-of-the-playoffs Flames to match the President's Trophy-bound Red Wings, and maybe the players themselves didn't either. Maybe that was part of the problem.

The Flames trudged into their dressing room and saw no sign of their coach/GM, Darryl Sutter. In fact, they would not see him at all that night. All they saw was his handwriting on the dry-erase board: "Be here 7 a.m."

Message sent. Said veteran forward Krzysztof Oliwa: "I set every alarm clock in the house." And the crack-of-dawn skate the next morning? Assistant Jim Playfair described it with one word: "quiet."

http://www.espn.com/nhl/playoffs2004...ory?id=1813256

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

The inexperienced GM maneuver of finding the next great young coach when coaches with tenure (and Stanley Cup rings) are passed over (and/ or fired). It is a rookie mistake that has been tried time and time again and usually costs the GM (and the coach) their job.

Didn't Nieuwendyk go down with Gulutzan in Dallas? So dumb of Treliving. The writing was on the wall in big 6' tall red letters...

I have nothing to back it up except anecdotal timing evidence, but I suspect that coaches with tenure with more than one team courting them are avoiding the Flames at this point.

We fired a coach that overachieved in year one of a complete rebuild and won the Jack Adams all because the team performed exactly where you would expect in year two of a rebuild (and the league's worst goaltending). I suspect that other coaches look at his dismissal as being overly harsh. Even if you look at the performance before the rebuild, it was where anyone should have realistically expected them to finish with an aging team.

I am not saying that Hartely was the guy to get the team to the next level, but we did trade the boat for a mystery box. If you were a guy like Boudreau or Julien, would you be the next one to jump on that when you know there are going to be a few teams offering you the same contract?

[Ryan Coke]

The other issue with Johnnys giveaway on the second goal was that he was the high forward when he turned the puck over, then it ended up with Coyotes trailer getting the open look without no one close on the back check, though the other two forward were aggressively trying to get back. So it appears that Johnny didn't hustle to cover the late man, and either dogged it back or went for the change.

The giveaway was bad, the lack of any backcheck was what caused the goal.

[Huntingwhale]

I have no problem with the demotion. I thought Gaudreau came out pretty high flying to start the game. He had his chances. But he's also near the top of the league in giveaways. He has multiple ones a game. Sure you can live with them when he's playing like his usual dynamic self and putting up points. But we've barely seen that payer this season outside of a few dominant games after his injury. Now those giveaways compound and result in goals against.

GG demoting him tells me that Gaudreau isn't leaning his lesson and something had to be done. This wasn't a single giveaway that resulted in the benching. It's game after game finally adding up and reaching a boiling point.

[Vinny01]

This coach clearly has no idea how to get this team prepared. If they somehow make the playoffs I could easily see them choking in the first round

[Ashasx]

We aren't making the playoffs. Our final 6 games are against the California teams, and final 3 games are in California.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

We aren't making the playoffs. Our final 6 games are against the California teams, and final 3 games are in California.

Very real possibility we finish 9th?

[Ashasx]

ok

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

What did he say about JG?

"He turned the puck over in the neutral zone there,” said Gulutzan, clearly unhappy with no. 13’s play. “We’re trying to play direct when it was 1-0.”

With word he had a meeting with Gaudreau earlier in the day, Gulutzan was asked if such a turnover was discussed with him.

“We’ve talked to all our guys about playing a certain way.”

Asked if such a move seemed extreme for a play-making forward whose forte is creativity and taking chances, he bristled.

“I don’t think it’s extreme,” he said. “We need points. It was 1-0.”

http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/02/14...lames-were-bad

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

It's because Darryl (a) doesn't say much, and (b) doesn't have to say much. From 2003/04 season:

I remember a game where Sutter didn't even go back to the dressing room during the intermission.

Just stood on the bench and drank from his water bottle.

But what does that guy know about hockey? He probably should have been preparing his players.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I remember a game where Sutter didn't even go back to the dressing room during the intermission.

Just stood on the bench and drank from his water bottle.

But what does that guy know about hockey? He probably should have been preparing his players.

When you command respect you don't need to necessarily rely on speeches or verbal lashings to get a message through. I imagine with Darryl all it took most of the times was a look in your direction.

[badradio]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

When you command respect you don't need to necessarily rely on speeches or verbal lashings to get a message through. I imagine with Darryl all it took most of the times was a look in your direction.

This. This is what the Flames need to achieve/overachieve... A coaching leader who commands respect and not worried about being players buddy buddy and counting their "personal stock."

[Heavy Jack]

What's bothering me about Gulutzan right now was proven almost to a painful degree last night. That mistake by Johnny was bad and in turn he was punished with 4th line minutes, being put out for the final 5 seconds of the 2nd PP on a 5 on 3 in the third, was basically benched for chunks of the game. Based on 1 mistake. Was Johnny not trying when he made that error?? No, he was trying to create a chance to tie the game.

Bob Hartely preached that these are young players, they are gonna make mistakes and that's ok - as long as they are trying, battling, playing the full 60. Players right now under Gulutzan look afraid to make mistakes, they are playing right now to not make mistakes which in turn is making us turn out games like last night... This is why we are so terrible when we let the first goal in. Alot of that is tied into the structure of GG system but what's annoying is that he was supposed to be a players coach, Hartely was the hardass and to me right now it's appeared as the opposite.

Guess we have to wait and see with the guy ... At times we appear to be so dominant - last night was our season incapsulated into a single game IMO - but when we are bad we look fragile which is a worrisome trait that I've started noticing this year more and more.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

It's because Darryl (a) doesn't say much, and (b) doesn't have to say much. From 2003/04 season:

I think this anecdote, while just that, sums up the difference perfectly. Half of the coaches responsibility is to manage emotion of the players and use it to the teams advantage, especially with a young team. GG comes off as a a guy that has the emotional understanding of a wooden board. Guys like Frolik and Backlund that have spent their life being emotionally manipulated don't need a coach to channel their emotions (hence their success). Tkatchuck has a personal coach with over 1000 NHL games of experience that he speaks with every night and manages him after every game. The rest of the young guys struggle.

The continued emphasis by some that the captains should be this influence is a complete misconception of how teams at any level work. A captain can inspire and motivate and help motivate the guys by giving credibility to the coaches words, but at the end of the day is a peer. The captain is the key to gluing the team together, but is in a difficult position when trying to call players out on their play as he is part of it.

The Flames are learning to play in a way that will result in a more consistent result based on team skill. If they can be good enough to methodically pick apart teams going forward and win playoff series' without being able to win this emotional battle remains to be seen. It's my personal opinion that the playoffs are all about managing emotion (hence we regularly see teams force upsets in the playoffs). I think if this team makes it to the playoffs under GGs tenure...we will be pretty disappointed with the outcome.

/rant

[MarkGio]

I wonder if the firing of Hartley had anything to do with the Monahan and Gaudreau contract extensions

[bax]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

What's bothering me about Gulutzan right now was proven almost to a painful degree last night. That mistake by Johnny was bad and in turn he was punished with 4th line minutes, being put out for the final 5 seconds of the 2nd PP on a 5 on 3 in the third, was basically benched for chunks of the game. Based on 1 mistake. Was Johnny not trying when he made that error?? No, he was trying to create a chance to tie the game.

Bob Hartely preached that these are young players, they are gonna make mistakes and that's ok - as long as they are trying, battling, playing the full 60. Players right now under Gulutzan look afraid to make mistakes, they are playing right now to not make mistakes which in turn is making us turn out games like last night... This is why we are so terrible when we let the first goal in. Alot of that is tied into the structure of GG system but what's annoying is that he was supposed to be a players coach, Hartely was the hardass and to me right now it's appeared as the opposite.

Guess we have to wait and see with the guy ... At times we appear to be so dominant - last night was our season incapsulated into a single game IMO - but when we are bad we look fragile which is a worrisome trait that I've started noticing this year more and more.

Johnny wasn't demoted for one mistake. It was a culmination of shift length, multiple turnovers, generally being mediocre over the last 20 games. Here's hoping this lights a fire under him. He's still a young player, but he's now getting paid as a go to guy. He is expected to produce.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

What's bothering me about Gulutzan right now was proven almost to a painful degree last night. That mistake by Johnny was bad and in turn he was punished with 4th line minutes, being put out for the final 5 seconds of the 2nd PP on a 5 on 3 in the third, was basically benched for chunks of the game. Based on 1 mistake. Was Johnny not trying when he made that error?? No, he was trying to create a chance to tie the game.

Bob Hartely preached that these are young players, they are gonna make mistakes and that's ok - as long as they are trying, battling, playing the full 60.

There are certain types of mistakes that are ok. But when a player makes a mistake because they are being selfish or free lancing - that isn't OK and that's when there needs to be consequences.
Johnny is no longer being paid as an entry level player. He is being paid at a level where consistency is required. Consistent effort and execution.

If Backlund can do it why can't Johnny?

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

There are certain types of mistakes that are ok. But when a player makes a mistake because they are being selfish or free lancing - that isn't OK and that's when there needs to be consequences.
Johnny is no longer being paid as an entry level player. He is being paid at a level where consistency is required. Consistent effort and execution.

If Backlund can do it why can't Johnny?

So Backlund was a complete player right away?? He was with out growing pains?? Johnny is in the very first year of that contract you mention and he is being leaned on and feeling way more pressure 3 years into his career than Backlund ever felt in his entire career -- terrible comparison. All I'm saying is I think demoting a guy like Johnny the way he did isn't always the best way to coach these types of players - no I don't want him developing bad habits but at the same time that was a mistake that I think was as selfish as many have made it to be. Pressure is playing a big part of this, you can tell Johnny is trying to play through it... Everyone was bad last night, not just him.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

The other issue with Johnnys giveaway on the second goal was that he was the high forward when he turned the puck over, then it ended up with Coyotes trailer getting the open look without no one close on the back check, though the other two forward were aggressively trying to get back. So it appears that Johnny didn't hustle to cover the late man, and either dogged it back or went for the change.

The giveaway was bad, the lack of any backcheck was what caused the goal.

Was wondering what happened on that play, so either he didnt backcheck or went for the line change.? Can see why GG would, be concerned it that's what transpired

[Calgary4LIfe]

Well, count me in as both surprised and somewhat relieved that Gulutzan isn't afraid to hold a star accountable. Being a players' coach and appearing rather 'overly calm' made me think he would never really do this. Good on him, right or wrong. Hope it works and sends the right message.

The Flames need Johnny to be 'electrifying' and to go out and do what he does, and you do expect a certain number of turnovers and such, but there just seems to be too many this season.