[PGT] Flames beat the Penguins 3-2 in the SO

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You could as easily argue Brodie hurt Wideman and the goalie last game. Brodie has the puck, fails to clear by just chucking the puck into traffic. Puck comes back to Brodie who gets checked and rings it behind the net. Wideman is also rushed and fires the puck to Brouwer on the boards, who tries to tip it to Monahan for a fast breakout. Puck in fact tips to the Pen who stepped in front of Monahan, and makes a quick pass, ending up on Brodie's side to an open man, and puck goes in.

That play never happens if the puck is cleared by Brodie. Wideman's pass was a little off, but Brouwer had choices as well. He could tip it out, or do a better job receiving. He tried a fancy, high risk play.

Yeah I was screaming at my TV on that shift. They had something like 4 quality chances to clear the puck and failed every time. That's why they were scored on, and there's no excuse to fail to clear a puck that many times.

[flameester]

I guess you missed the play where Johnny did not even attempt to play the puck coming around the boards.

As you put it the play never happens if Johnny controls or attempts to play the puck.

Almost every player on the ice had an opportunity to get it out and didn't but hey it must be Brodie's fault.

[Gaskal]

Brouwer was absolutely not to blame on the 2nd Penguins goal. He made the right play by deflecting it - could've gone out, but it hit his stick at an angle and pops right up into the air. If he hadn't touched it at all, it would be right on the tape of Guentzel anyway.

[bigrangy]

It was a rough play by everyone all around.

http://streamable.com/zb5cn

Brodie passes the puck to Johnny on the side wall, who elects to not play it for some reason
Good keep in by the Pens d-man, then Monahan wins a puck battle against Schultz but fails to clear after another good keep in by the Pens d-man. Meanwhile Gaudreau is looking to fly the zone like he always is
Puck goes back in deep down to WIdeman, who throws a grenade at Brouwer, who then plays it pretty much as bad as possible (pucks to the boards when under pressure, not to the slot. peewee stuff)
Monahan flies by his check and Gaudreau flies the zone again expecting Monahan to get the puck to him
Brodie then misses his pokecheck and gets beat
Tap in for Guentzel

everyone screwed up here, some more than most

fortunately Johnson was able to steal some points but the defensive coverage on this goal was horrendous

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

With my changes to the game stories I find I get to make that eye test to underlying numbers comparison period by period these days and to me this one was what it was.

The Flames were good, but the Penguins were the better team in each of the three periods, and demonstrability so in the second.

I think if you get some chances on a powerplay a fan feels it's been evened up both those aren't five on five shot attempts or corsi relative.

Additionally overtime doesn't count at all since 3 on 3 isn't 5 on 5

But that isn't to say the Flames were "owned", they bent but didn't break against a very good hockey team in their barn

This is one of the fundamental problems with trying to analyse fluid situations with stats.

Sure, it makes total sense to use 5 on 5 for obvious reasons. Score adjusted too.

The problem is that sometimes the game doesn't fit into neat little boxes. Sometimes you do dominate on the PP - and that matters. Sometimes you get breakaways short-handed. That matters too. So does the 3 on 3.

Sometimes a team doesn't get going until they're down. But eventually, they do get going. And maybe they totally dominate from that point on. To simply dismiss it because 'score-adjusted' can miss too much information.

Sure, the Pens dominated the possession stats 5 on 5. But they didn't dominate the game. I saw that. Whether or not 5 on 5 CORSI stats saw it doesn't concern me because they simply don't see everything. As has been demonstrated over and over.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

With my changes to the game stories I find I get to make that eye test to underlying numbers comparison period by period these days and to me this one was what it was.

The Flames were good, but the Penguins were the better team in each of the three periods, and demonstrability so in the second.

I think if you get some chances on a powerplay a fan feels it's been evened up both those aren't five on five shot attempts or corsi relative.

Additionally overtime doesn't count at all since 3 on 3 isn't 5 on 5

But that isn't to say the Flames were "owned", they bent but didn't break against a very good hockey team in their barn

This. There are many games over the course of a season that are decided by bounces, goalie play or just good snipes. It can take a ton of games for this to even out and allow the better teams to rise to the top. Playoffs are different when same 2 teams go head to head and teams can be beaten down and exploited.

[AC]

Cracks me up to see how many Canucks fans continue to rage over the very existence of Ferland. The r/hockey thread about his goal had a couple Canucks fans calling him the worst player in the league, and a plug.

The amount of racist comments I have to filter off his videos of mine is staggering.

[Lil Pedro]

Originally Posted by AC

Cracks me up to see how many Canucks fans continue to rage over the very existence of Ferland. The r/hockey thread about his goal had a couple Canucks fans calling him the worst player in the league, and a plug.

The amount of racist comments I have to filter off his videos of mine is staggering.

Clearly they haven't watched the 21 plugs on their own team that much this year. Ferland's got so much potential; it's nice to see him playing well over this last stretch. He is going to be a key member of this team long term.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is one of the fundamental problems with trying to analyse fluid situations with stats.

Sure, it makes total sense to use 5 on 5 for obvious reasons. Score adjusted too.

The problem is that sometimes the game doesn't fit into neat little boxes. Sometimes you do dominate on the PP - and that matters. Sometimes you get breakaways short-handed. That matters too. So does the 3 on 3.

Sometimes a team doesn't get going until they're down. But eventually, they do get going. And maybe they totally dominate from that point on. To simply dismiss it because 'score-adjusted' can miss too much information.

Sure, the Pens dominated the possession stats 5 on 5. But they didn't dominate the game. I saw that. Whether or not 5 on 5 CORSI stats saw it doesn't concern me because they simply don't see everything. As has been demonstrated over and over.

All very true.

The only thing I would set on the other side of the account is that stretch in the second period where the Penguins got several brilliant scoring chances in a row and Johnson robbed them. Against a top team, a poor stretch like that is often enough to cost you the game. Based on that, I would probably not disagree with anyone who felt that the Flames were outplayed on the whole.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Brouwer was absolutely not to blame on the 2nd Penguins goal. He made the right play by deflecting it - could've gone out, but it hit his stick at an angle and pops right up into the air. If he hadn't touched it at all, it would be right on the tape of Guentzel anyway.

He didn't try to tip it out, he tried to pass it to Monahan in the middle of the ice and Monahan was in a worse position that the guy who intercepted. If he hadn't touched it at all it maybe goes to the point, maybe goes out, it is along the boards in any event.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Lil Pedro

Clearly they haven't watched the 21 plugs on their own team that much this year. Ferland's got so much potential; it's nice to see him playing well over this last stretch. He is going to be a key member of this team long term.

Or Vegas.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Or Vegas.

lol

[Azure]

Originally Posted by activeStick

1 of the top 8 teams in possession stats is safely in a playoff spot. Doesn't support the importance of having good advanced stats at all....

Someone should tweet that at Scott Cullen over at TSN.