What could Wideman fetch us at the deadline?

[smiggy77]

Originally Posted by tfi racing

They could park him the rest of the season,but that would guarantee that they receive absolutely nothing for what they are paying him now and zero chance of anything at the deadline. Wideman is only one small part of the team making the playoffs or not,there is a slim chance someone is desperate enough for help near the end of the month that an offer could be made,why else would he still be playing...

Exactly! I'm going to guarantee that come post deadline if he can't be moved, he will be playing 0-5min per game.

[Erick Estrada]

I am long past trading Wideman. Teams have scouts and any scout worth his salt would be telling the GM to stay far away. I'm not sure if it's because he lost a step or has never recovered from that incident with the official but he probably shouldn't be on an NHL roster right now.

[jeffmacrealtor]

He's worth a third maybe. The Flames should try Florida. Look what they paid for Hudler.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by jeffmacrealtor

He's worth a third maybe. The Flames should try Florida. Look what they paid for Hudler.

I used to think that but as the season has progressed he's looked worse by the game. He can't even get a point shot off without causing a turnover at the blue line most of the time. I just don't see the value in his play for any NHL team.

[northcrunk]

Wideman isn't worth a bag of pucks at this point. They need to bench him. I would rather see Kenny Morrisson playing in his spot if they want a RHD.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

Wideman isn't worth a bag of pucks at this point. They need to bench him. I would rather see Kenny Morrisson playing in his spot if they want a RHD.

Kenny or one of the boys will be called up if they failbto trade Dennis by the deadline.

I guarantee it...

Or at least I hope thats what happens

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

The consensus here seems to be that Wideman is pretty bad; I also admit I've seen him make some plays that inspire a solid facepalm. Still, if he's that bad, why is he only -2 when Brodie (whom he is often paired with and is reportedly bringing down) is -21?

I looked at at Wideman's stats at http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...-advanced.html

Other than getting 55/45 offensive zone starts compared to Brodie's near 50/50 split, I can't see anything that explains it and that difference alone does not seem to be enough. He regularly plays 18:00 to 23:00 mins. per game too.

If he's -2 on the Flames, surely he's +5 somewhere where he does not have to log as many minutes. There has to be some value there.

3rd rounder from someone looking to make a run?

[Sylvanfan]

Wideman does seem to make at least one major gaffe a game that results in a goal against. But that's just my feeling. Often due to a fanned point shot, blocked shot that he pounded into a shin pad. Or just a bad giveaway.

Who knows, maybe if he was playing 12 minutes a night more sheltered that one critical mistake a game would become one every 4 games?

I personally think they might be able to make a Jones like deal if they really tried. It really could be the teams willingness to eat salary though. IIRC in the Jones deal the team didn't eat any salary, they just agreed to take back a similar contract that the Wild really couldn't get any use of, since Backstrom was going to come off IR and they didn't want a three headed monster in goal with the 3rd head eating up that much cap.

[Classic_Sniper]

If Wideman has little to no trade value. We might as well keep him and use him as a 6th or 7th defenseman depending on the team we play against.

Giordano-Hamilton = 24 mins/per game
Brodie-Engelland = 24 mins/per game
Kulak-Wideman = 12 sheltered mins/per game

This would give us the best chance of winning on a nightly basis. Wideman playing against top 6 forwards is a recipe for disaster. He should never start in the defensive zone either. Against faster teams he can sit out and Jokipakka can be inserted into the line up if need be.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

The consensus here seems to be that Wideman is pretty bad; I also admit I've seen him make some plays that inspire a solid facepalm. Still, if he's that bad, why is he only -2 when Brodie (whom he is often paired with and is reportedly bringing down) is -21?

I looked at at Wideman's stats at http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...-advanced.html

Other than getting 55/45 offensive zone starts compared to Brodie's near 50/50 split, I can't see anything that explains it and that difference alone does not seem to be enough. He regularly plays 18:00 to 23:00 mins. per game too.

If he's -2 on the Flames, surely he's +5 somewhere where he does not have to log as many minutes. There has to be some value there.

3rd rounder from someone looking to make a run?

There's several reasons why Wideman is the concensus whipping boy:

1) Cognitive dissonance - Since Wideman is a UFA and he's been reported to be on the trade block for a long time, it's easier on the psyche to out-group someone who is predicted to be out of the group. When Wideman first signed and had 5 years left, he was the same old Wideman but people defended him and aligned with him because he was a Flame for a long time. One cannot both Hate the Flames and be a fan at the same time, hence former Flames (ie, Baertchi, Iginla) get hated on, while current Flames get embraces despite their downfalls.

2) Wideman-gate - Since fans can't both hate the organization and be fans at the same time, it's easier to blame Wideman for the Flames high penalty rate than it is to blame the organization in itself, even though the Flames are just as guilty of denying Wideman's actions as Wideman is. Wideman was arguably concussed and therefore not cognitively responsible, whereas the Flames organization was not, and therefore made the cognitive effort to create a Flames vs. Refs situation for themselves.

3) Wideman is a prototypical whipping boy - Highly paid, past his prime, has no long term future with the Flames, and is offensively underperforming, all makes him the easy target. It was Stajan when his contract was expiring due to the prototypical model, but then Burke signed him to half a decade and then fans must now cognitively associate with Stajan (see point 1).

If Treliving signed Wideman tomorrow for 5 years at 2 million, watch how many fans come out the woods showing stats that Wideman is not that bad. It happened after Brouwer was signed to an obviously overpaid contract, as well as Engelland too.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I personally think they might be able to make a Jones like deal if they really tried. It really could be the teams willingness to eat salary though. IIRC in the Jones deal the team didn't eat any salary, they just agreed to take back a similar contract that the Wild really couldn't get any use of, since Backstrom was going to come off IR and they didn't want a three headed monster in goal with the 3rd head eating up that much cap.

I'm sure that Treliving has turned down offer after offer involving something along the lines of Wideman for a horrible cap dump contract with term remaining. Hell the #### no to that, no way is that worth getting Wideman off this team if we're getting handcuffed another 2-3 years with someone else.

A UFA cap dump for UFA cap dump makes a lot of sense. Because he's paid $6 million in actual dollars, Flames may have to retain just to make the numbers even out. And I don't think the NMC is much of a factor if the organization threatens to permanently pressbox him.



I'm sure Wides can boost their tankfest too. Imagine the mood change in the team and the city if this trade did happen. It's basically Whipping Boy for Hometown Hero.

[rhino]

A stick?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

If Treliving signed Wideman tomorrow for 5 years at 2 million, watch how many fans come out the woods showing stats that Wideman is not that bad. It happened after Brouwer was signed to an obviously overpaid contract, as well as Engelland too.

Leaving aside your armchair psychoanalysis (and aside is where it needs to be left), there's a perfectly sound reason why fans did not complain much about the signings of Brouwer and Engelland:

UFAs are always overpaid compared to players whose rights are controlled by their teams. We expect them to charge every dollar that the market will bear.

Of course those players are not delivering good value for money paid. But since no other assets were given up to acquire them, the team is making out OK in terms of value for total cost of acquisition. Naturally, you are free to ignore this, and I imagine you will.

No doubt you will think that I have some kind of awful cognitive dissonance; for all I know, you think I have an Oedipus complex. I guess you'll just have to take it out in theorizing, since it is so obvious to you that only mental illness can account for a person's refusal to grab torch and pitchfork and run Brouwer and Engelland out of town.

[taxbuster]

Suspect that a team wanting to make a run that also has a bit of a shaky defensive bottom pairing would take him -- he's no worse than someone else in that position and could be a lot better because of his experience. What could we get? Not much - likely a late-rounder.....

But he is not totally invaluable - he just has to be in the right position, with the right minutes and the right partner to compensate. Given that, and if there is a team that sees that potential, why not?

His ref issues are probably gone with a move.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

There's several reasons why Wideman is the concensus whipping boy:

1) Cognitive dissonance - Since Wideman is a UFA and he's been reported to be on the trade block for a long time, it's easier on the psyche to out-group someone who is predicted to be out of the group. When Wideman first signed and had 5 years left, he was the same old Wideman but people defended him and aligned with him because he was a Flame for a long time. One cannot both Hate the Flames and be a fan at the same time, hence former Flames (ie, Baertchi, Iginla) get hated on, while current Flames get embraces despite their downfalls.

2) Wideman-gate - Since fans can't both hate the organization and be fans at the same time, it's easier to blame Wideman for the Flames high penalty rate than it is to blame the organization in itself, even though the Flames are just as guilty of denying Wideman's actions as Wideman is. Wideman was arguably concussed and therefore not cognitively responsible, whereas the Flames organization was not, and therefore made the cognitive effort to create a Flames vs. Refs situation for themselves.

3) Wideman is a prototypical whipping boy - Highly paid, past his prime, has no long term future with the Flames, and is offensively underperforming, all makes him the easy target. It was Stajan when his contract was expiring due to the prototypical model, but then Burke signed him to half a decade and then fans must now cognitively associate with Stajan (see point 1).

If Treliving signed Wideman tomorrow for 5 years at 2 million, watch how many fans come out the woods showing stats that Wideman is not that bad. It happened after Brouwer was signed to an obviously overpaid contract, as well as Engelland too.

1) What a bunch of BS. Wideman has been terrible for a long time. And I actually recall people losing their mind over the NMC when he signed. The contract itself isn't horrible (or much more than most UFA contracts), it's the NMC that made it ridiculous. I bet that if you asked Burke or KK why they canned Feaster, that was high on the list.


2) Widemangate is all wideman's fault. If he had not assaulted that ref, he wouldn't be as hated as he is. I was kind of indifferent to him until that day. I think he did it on purpose out of anger and frustration, not out of partially concussed cognitive non-responsibility. And I know plenty of other peopel think the same. Flames fans, non-flames fans, and yes, even a few refs.

I want him off the team MOSTLY because of this incident. The fact that he f-ing sucks is just ammo.

3) If Treliving re-signed Wideman for even $1, there would be calls for him to be fired. He would be fired. Burke would fire him. He's no longer a UFA that warrants any kind of contract. He'll be lucky to get a PTO.

The only reason you hear this much whining about him is because he can't get buried in the minors, like he would have been months ago, if he didn;t have an NMC.

[FBI]

Lol if treliving signed Wideman for 5 years at 2 million, people would lose their sh$ including me. I like treliving but that would easily make me lose all faith in him.

[mennoknight]

Do they gather stats on how many times a game he shoots the puck as hard as he can directly at a shot blocker? Asking for a friend.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

There's several reasons why Wideman is the concensus whipping boy:


If Treliving signed Wideman tomorrow for 5 years at 2 million, watch how many fans come out the woods showing stats that Wideman is not that bad. It happened after Brouwer was signed to an obviously overpaid contract, as well as Engelland too.

Are you arguing that Engleland was a bad deal?

If so can you identify who would have filled that whole and what opportunity cost was given up by signing him.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I am long past trading Wideman. Teams have scouts and any scout worth his salt would be telling the GM to stay far away. I'm not sure if it's because he lost a step or has never recovered from that incident with the official but he probably shouldn't be on an NHL roster right now.

Pretty much this. I would also add 2 things.

1) as a rental player, he is not a cheap rental player.

2) he has a NMC. Flames have a chance for the playoffs and he is getting top 4 minutes. No team trading for him is going to give him top 4 minutes. He would be lucky to be a constant #6 on some stanley cup contenders. IMO him accepting a trade to another team, learning a new system and not adjusting well to it, would probably be the final dagger in him not getting a cheap contract for next year. ( granted that dagger might have already been planted)

[bax]

People are too hard on Wideman. He's playing over his head in a number 4 role here, but as a 5 or 6 he would fair much better. Now that his contract is finally expiring I'm sure a team looking for added depth on a playoff run would give at least something for him