Douglas Garland Trial - Guilty- 1st degree- 3 counts / 75 years no parole.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by greyshep

I am sorry if I have personally offended you and your passion for the role of the defence.

Its not going to change how I feel about this situation though. I am amazed how aggressive people on this board can get when someone expresses a personal opinion of current events.

There is nothing aggressive about my post at all. You openly questioned on a message board how a defence lawyer could defend someone they know must be guilty. I, as a defence lawyer, helped you out with the answer.

Those names I listed are real human beings, just like Mr. and Mrs. Liknes, who spent decades in prison when they were innocent. Why are you not so concerned about the injustices those people had inflicted upon them by your government on your behalf as you are that a lawyer would question the validity of a photograph?

Depending on your age, what did you do (or do you plan to do) in your life from age 17 to 40? Anything interesting? Any meaningful life experiences? David Milgaard literally lost his mind while he served someone else's rape and murder sentence. I wonder if his defence lawyer ran his defence based on the premise that he was obviously guilty? If he did, would you think that was a good thing? I mean the rape and killing of Gail Miller was truly heinous. How anyone could defend a man charged with such horrible things is hard to imagine...

I am not personally offended by your opinion (and even if I were that's no reason for you to silence it). That is a strawman to avoid engaging in the discussion. I understand a visceral desire to see people who have done horrible things be held accountable. What I don't understand is the inability to see that the role of the defence lawyer is to make sure (as much as a fallible human system can) people we hold accountable are in fact people who have done the horrible things someone says they did.

Your opinion of my friend and colleague is nothing new. But then, neither is me taking the opportunity to try to educate you to revise your opinion. You either will or you will not. It makes no difference to me. Tomorrow is another day and I will be working to overturn the outcome of a trial where a man was convicted of stabbing someone to death.

[curves2000]

One of the best interviews I have ever seen with regards to the justice system and the role of both defense and prosecution was with Marie Henein, Jian Ghomeshi's lawyer from the sex assault trial last year. She was being ripped to shreds by the media and some political personnel that went hand in hand with protesters. I found myself in awe of this women reading a few pieces and watching some interviews, she has defended some heavy hitters in Toronto and she best explained one of the most important roles of a defense attorney: To assist that person navigate the complexities of the justice system for both the accused and the public at large.

If anybody has 20 minutes to spare, this interview is excellent in my opinion.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/thenational/j...idge-1.3511752

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

What is the detail around the aerial footage? Was it an amateur with a drone??

As much as I generally dislike the reporting styles of the Calgary Sun, this articles is pretty decent in explaining the photos and their significance and how they came to be taken.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/02/06...-trial-resumes

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

As much as I generally dislike the reporting styles of the Calgary Sun, this articles is pretty decent in explaining the photos and their significance and how they came to be taken.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/02/06...-trial-resumes

Photos from an aircraft to what "appears" to be human bodies lying in grass are nothing when compared to DNA of all three victims was found on the property.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Photos from an aircraft to what "appears" to be human bodies lying in grass are nothing when compared to DNA of all three victims was found on the property.

Did you follow along on twitter at all? It sounded pretty clear they were bodies, not really an "appears" to be.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Photos from an aircraft to what "appears" to be human bodies lying in grass are nothing when compared to DNA of all three victims was found on the property.

When using circumstantial evidence, I imagine one would be happy with every shred of it one can get...

[MBates]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

When using circumstantial evidence, I imagine one would be happy with every shred of it one can get...

Especially in a murder case with no bodies anything that can help explain that there were in fact dead bodies is a massive piece of the puzzle. The fact the evidence also suggests the dead bodies were with the accused is nearly insurmountable.

DNA can actually have little probative value depending on the circumstances. If you have ever tossed out a fast food cup or a tissue or a piece of gum I can get your DNA and put it where I want. (The apparent locations of DNA in this case seems to be much higher on the probative value scale).

Apparently the photos are of sufficient resolution the judge is seriously questioning whether he will allow them to be released to the public. They could easily end up being the most important piece of evidence in the case.

[burn_this_city]

I'll be surprised if those photos are released. Sounds like they caused quite a bit of trauma with the jury and gallery.

[automaton 3]

Even the thought of the pictures has my wife very upset. For context we have an almost 4 year old son.

I hope they are not released for public consumption.

Again, very surprising to me that Garland elected judge and jury.

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

Even the thought of the pictures has my wife very upset. For context we have an almost 4 year old son. I hope they are not released for public consumption.

Agreed.

I'm following this trial closely but my wife wants nothing to do with it so haven't updated her at all - can't say as I blame her. Imagining our 4 year old daughter in that photo is gut-wrenching.

[Nyah]

It's been a tough trial to follow as a stranger, I can't imagine what it must be like for the O'Brien's and members of the Liknes families, especially yesterday. My heart really goes out to them. If found guilty (duh) Garland really is a piece of #### for dragging this out when he could have plead guilty to begin with.

[Raekwon]

Pictures leaked of the aerial body pictures.

Spoiler!

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Nyah

It's been a tough trial to follow as a stranger, I can't imagine what it must be like for the O'Brien's and members of the Liknes families, especially yesterday. My heart really goes out to them. If found guilty (duh) Garland really is a piece of #### for dragging this out when he could have plead guilty to begin with.

While I agree completely, I suppose one of the issues may have been what exactly the prosecution can, or was willing to offer in exchange for a guilty plea in this case.
These are horrible 1st degree murders, by several criteria. Life without parole for 25 should be min, not max.
Sigh

[dubc80]

Oh man, Im following the tweets today about the DNA evidence too...

They got Nathan's source DNA from his hockey helmet, and they showed a pic of it along with a pair of his little running shoes as an exhibit...

[Nyah]

Man, the details of the DNA evidence are painting a pretty gruesome picture of how things may have happened.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Nyah

Man, the details of the DNA evidence are painting a pretty gruesome picture of how things may have happened.

Experience tells me some things are better left unknown.

[Raekwon]

Male DNA found on handcuffs police seized from #Garland farm didn't match Alvin Liknes or Nathan O'Brien.

Serial Killer?

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

Male DNA found on handcuffs police seized from #Garland farm didn't match Alvin Liknes or Nathan O'Brien.

Serial Killer?

Doesn't say it wasn't Garland's DNA.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Ruttiger

Doesn't say it wasn't Garland's DNA.

Actually there was some DNA that didn't match Garland, Nathan, or Alvin.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

While I agree completely, I suppose one of the issues may have been what exactly the prosecution can, or was willing to offer in exchange for a guilty plea in this case.
These are horrible 1st degree murders, by several criteria. Life without parole for 25 should be min, not max.
Sigh

Isn't this a case where he could be sentenced non-concurrently?

So if he believes he'd be found guilty he might plee to 25 years whereas the prosecution will likely ask for non concurrent parole eligibility