2 dead & 6 injured as teens take after hours sled ride down Winsport bobsleigh track

[GGG]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

No, it makes me logical and realistic.
Why would god kill them after they just praised him.
Why would an omnipotent, omniscient being feel a need for people to worship and praise him or her anyways?

You can be a dink and be logical and realistic.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by GGG

You can be a dink and be logical and realistic.

So. Being logical and realistic makes me a dick?
Xtians sure have funny logic.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

So. Being logical and realistic makes me a dick?
Xtians sure have funny logic.

Apparently religion is one of those things you can't say a negative thing in any form otherwise the religious start to feel bad because they may have lived their entire life devoted to a folly.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by getbak

It's not so much a gate as it is a switch (like on a railroad). The track has a Y-shaped design. Bobsleds start at one location and lugers at another and the two tracks merge where this gate is.

It can be set in either bobsleigh or luge position to allow those racers onto the shared portion of the track.


You can see the aerial view here: https://goo.gl/maps/jPM4DU9wRmn

Good answer, but it really does not explain the reason why someone would put what is essentially a wall in the middle of the track. Couldn't this be done in a way that could prevent serious injury? Not that I know much about this, but do they still make them this way, or have they abandoned this obviously terrible design?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Good answer, but it really does not explain the reason why someone would put what is essentially a wall in the middle of the track. Couldn't this be done in a way that could prevent serious injury? Not that I know much about this, but do they still make them this way, or have they abandoned this obviously terrible design?

Like you, I don't know anything about combined bobsled/luge tracks, but the track has been there for 30 years and it always did okay.

This is a tragedy no doubt, but you can't blame it on the design of the track any more than you can blame a flight of stairs if someone falls down them in the dark, after breaking in to a house.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Can someone explain to me what purpose the gate serves when the run is not in use?

Why would it be deployed at all?

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Good answer, but it really does not explain the reason why someone would put what is essentially a wall in the middle of the track. Couldn't this be done in a way that could prevent serious injury? Not that I know much about this, but do they still make them this way, or have they abandoned this obviously terrible design?

Thing is, it's not a terrible design. It is, in fact, a very clever design that saved a not-insignificant amount of money during it's construction. The reasons that the switch are there and why it's the way it is have been explained many times. The switch is built how it is because the switch becomes a wall of the track going the other way, and has to be sturdy enough to have bobsleds bounce off of it. It has to be there (the option was explored to not have it there) because luge sleds could get turned around in the gap, which was considered too dangerous.

I went back through this thread today to do some looking at some of the previous explanations.

There's a really good picture of the switch in action in post 101

Spoiler!

A graphic that I believe COP made to explain how the switch works:

Spoiler!

A graphic overhead of the gate length/in action:

Spoiler!

Finally, a quote from the Winsport investigation (post #461) about the size of the gate:
"This barrier/gate is approximately two feet in height and 60 feet in length, with a thick metal chain and come-along bar holding the structure in place."

I also recall hearing it weighs in around 1 or 2 tons, so isn't exactly an easy move, or something easily removed from the track (which was suggested by some earlier as well)

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Not that I know much about this, but do they still make them this way, or have they abandoned this obviously terrible design?

I don't want to sound like a jerk but that's like saying that car doors are a terrible design after a carjacker hurriedly closed the door of a stolen car on his own leg and broke it during a theft.

It's obviously a really crappy result, but not to belabor it - but these people (nearly adults) hurt themselves in the process of committing a crime (breaking-in and trespassing), using the track under conditions for which they were not intended (choosing to purposefully go without helmets or lights and piled together for greater speed after their original stunt) for the purpose of an even greater the thrill.

The injuries and deaths suck but that's what it is.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

We recognize that God can work miracles through the hands of medical professionals,

Then why is there so many deaths? I mean if there was that kind of power available you'd think it would be utilized more frequently..

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Good answer, but it really does not explain the reason why someone would put what is essentially a wall in the middle of the track. Couldn't this be done in a way that could prevent serious injury? Not that I know much about this, but do they still make them this way, or have they abandoned this obviously terrible design?

The design is not the problem at all. This has been debated back and forth a million times in this thread already but the design is fine but I think not having a gate preventing anyone going down was the problem (which has now been fixed).

[Flames_Gimp]

Awesome! a religious argument.. My favorite!

If you need a magic invisible man in the sky to get you through life you have a weak constitution.

Religion is a crutch that too many people lean on!

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

Awesome! a religious argument.. My favorite!

If you need a magic invisible man in the sky to get you through life you have a weak constitution.

Religion is a crutch that too many people lean on!

If you need validation from a message board then you have a weak constitution. Always the atheists who are the loud and arrogant ones. Maybe they need God in their life. You guys would actually make great Jehovah Witnesses.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

If you need validation from a message board then you have a weak constitution. Always the atheists who are the loud and arrogant ones. Maybe they need God in their life. You guys would actually make great Jehovah Witnesses.

lol because religious people are never loud and arrogant ?

I don't need validation from anyone or anything. And only believers can voice an opinion?

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

lol because religious people are never loud and arrogant ?

I don't need validation from anyone or anything. And only believers can voice an opinion?

The only ones I know that talk about their beliefs are either knocking on my door or the atheists on CP.

Miraculously in real life atheists don't say anything.

You think you, Reaper and the the bunch would ever say the things they're saying in this thread to the families face? If you won't say it to someone's face then it probably means you're being an ass. Let them use whatever coping method they want it's really not effecting you in any way.

I'm not even religious but it's quite funny reading this thread.

[Flames_Gimp]

the kids survived due to the complete randomness of the universe and help from first responders, nothing more. Now they will sleep at night with the belief that it was gods plan for the victims to die and the survivors to live.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

the kids survived due to the complete randomness of the universe and help from first responders, nothing more. Now they will sleep at night with the belief that it was gods plan for the victims to die and the survivors to live.

And that makes you sleep worse at night knowing this? How's that any of your concern?

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

The only ones I know that talk about their beliefs are either knocking on my door or the atheists on CP.

Miraculously in real life atheists don't say anything.

You think you, Reaper and the the bunch would ever say the things they're saying in this thread to the families face
.

Even though I'm sure Mike Pence would have no problems telling the parents of a gay kid that their child needs conversion therapy and Jesus.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

The only ones I know that talk about their beliefs are either knocking on my door or the atheists on CP.

Miraculously in real life atheists don't say anything.

You think you, Reaper and the the bunch would ever say the things they're saying in this thread to the families face? If you won't say it to someone's face then it probably means you're being an ass. Let them use whatever coping method they want it's really not effecting you in any way.

I'm not even religious but it's quite funny reading this thread.

I simply stated an opinion, never said anyone can't have their own beliefs.

Religious people I don't even know have approached me several times to tell me i'll go to a better place because of a disability, so ya as atheists we wouldn't say anything to anyone's face, but bet your ass a religious person would!

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

You think you, Reaper and the bunch would ever say the things they're saying in this thread to the families face?

If they truly asked me what I thought about the situation I would attempt to be as honest as possible. I try to live truthfully and directly when it comes to others.

Would I seek them out to throw the folly of them accepting an idea without evidence in their face on top of losing their kids or the kid losing his eye?

Of course, not. I'm not a monster.

Would I tell them their method of coping is stupid no matter how ridiculous I find it on top of the tragedies?

No way, I'm not looking to hurt anyone especially when they're at most likely the lowest point in their life.

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

If you won't say it to someone's face then it probably means you're being an ass.

So, I should try to hurt people when they are down? I'm specifically avoiding being horrid to people because I believe in being kind. That is why I was annoyed by the whole "god saved muh boy" rigamarole in the paper. The complete lack of sensitivity towards the parents of the departed kids by rolling that out in a newspaper article.

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Let them use whatever coping method they want it's really not affecting you in any way.

I also never said that they couldn't use whatever coping method they felt like going with. However the flip side of that is that I can still deem it distasteful. I can even think it is illogical because it is my opinion. I don't have to hurt people because I disagree with them so I generally let people cope how they want to. You do you; I'll do me.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I simply stated an opinion, never said anyone can't have their own beliefs.

Religious people I don't even know have approached me several times to tell me i'll go to a better place because of a disability, so ya as atheists we wouldn't say anything to anyone's face, but bet your ass a religious person would!

Ha! Same, as a gentleman in wheelchair, I am often told that I will be going to a "better place", or things will be better in the "afterlife"... unprovoked.

I have no time for this way of thinking; it seems to be ingrained in many peoples interpretation of a fairy tale.
I'm not an atheist shouting from the rooftops, I'm a person with a disability, who couldn't care less about how you can save me!

Know how things got better for me? I became more pragmatic.

As for the surviving kids; I'm for whatever helps them cope, but hopefully they question the reality of their situation and become better people for it.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteEbola

Ha! Same, as a gentleman in wheelchair, I am often told that I will be going to a "better place", or things will be better in the "afterlife"... unprovoked.

It's like they think we hate life or something just because we got dealt a crappy hand, ya it sucks sometimes but there is no better place than right here