I completely agree. And when you have the world's greatest superpower, by far, succumb to this - with no one else to provide any check on them - you get the potential for the world as we know it to end. .
Unrelated to the facsim topic, but the bolded part made me want to share a fear of mine.....
If I'm anti-American (regardless of religious affiliation), would it not be the perfect time to send an anti-American message to the American government on American soil? I mean everyone down there is running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to sort out the 7-country ban and general chaos within their government at the moment. It would appear to me they are a bit vulnerable.
Trump doesn't react well to a twitter comment he doesn't like or an SNL sketch poking fun at him. I fear his reaction should someone take advantage of what I believe is a vulnerable situation right now. I hope I'm out to lunch.
Any speculation about the next election needs to take into account that vote suppression is IMO very likely to just explode. When you combine the changing demographics of the country with Trumps overtly racist rhetorics, I don't see the GOP having any other choice than to fully embrace racism as a guiding policy. If they want to keep winning elections that is.
I'll be very surprised if we don't see completely new legislation and other methods that seek to limit the voting opportunities of the very sizable immigrant population at the very least.
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Unrelated to the facsim topic, but the bolded part made me want to share a fear of mine.....
If I'm anti-American (regardless of religious affiliation), would it not be the perfect time to send an anti-American message to the American government on American soil?
Oh I don't know.
Napoleon is credited with a saying that I think fits well here. "Never interfere with an enemy while he’s in the process of destroying himself".
Right now US seems very busy tearing itself apart. Reminding them that they actually have outside enemies would probably just slow that down.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
I completely agree. And when you have the world's greatest superpower, by far, succumb to this - with no one else to provide any check on them - you get the potential for the world as we know it to end. This is what I was talking about when I was going on about perspective and the magnitude of the risk being existential. It's beginning to come to fruition, horrifyingly enough.
More and more - even a few pages back in this very thread - we see people being generally ok with the idea of what Russia is under Putin. The freaking president admires the man and has at least partially started down that path.
Interesting too how Putin consolidated power through fears of Chechen terrorism, especially the apartment blasts in Moscow. I won't get into that conspiracy theory, but there's some meat on those bones.
The American Psychiatry Association has a nine-point checklist for narcissism - if someone displays just five of the traits has Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognised as superior without commensurate achievements).
Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).
Requires excessive admiration.
Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favourable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.
Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.
Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognise or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
Shows arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes.
Even Trump’s most ardent supporters might struggle to deny the President displays at least five of those characteristics.
The American Psychiatry Association has a nine-point checklist for narcissism - if someone displays just five of the traits has Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognised as superior without commensurate achievements).
Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).
Requires excessive admiration.
Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favourable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.
Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.
Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognise or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
Shows arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes.
Even Trump’s most ardent supporters might struggle to deny the President displays at least five of those characteristics.
You've said before you live in "Hickville" PA, IIRC. I'm curious what's tying you to a place dominated by a culture you clearly don't respect? Family? Job? This is a non-judgmental question here...really just trying to learn more about how the US is so divided, yet (in your case) still has such clear ideological conflicts on the "micro" scale -- that is, neighbour to neighbour, as opposed to "east vs. west" or "urban vs. rural."
I live in Pittsburgh, which is relatively middle-of-the-road politically, and leans a bit left, especially in the city itself. The suburb I work in is just separated enough (and much closer to coal country) that it goes sharply red as soon as you cross the county line. My family is here, I have an excellent working situation overall (I make the same as several friends who work 40+ hours a week, I work about 35, also my boss is amazing), and the city itself offers much (culture, sports, proximity to outdoorsy stuff like hiking and skiing) and it's quick flying or reasonable driving distance to basically anywhere on the east coast (and Chicago). Also I have a spacious 1br apartment for less than half what my friends on NYC and Boston pay to share a tiny 2 bedroom, housing/rent is reasonable. There are too many pros that outweigh the cons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik-
I don't necessarily agree with the statement, but the derision that is directed at the right, which I myself am totally guilty of too, dismissing them as stupid or all racist, definitely puts people into a defensive shell.
Even myself, while agreeing with their views in general, am sick of seeing celebrities lecture people. as an example. I can see there being a lot of "#### you" votes because of this type of thing.
I think people should accept that a pretty fair portion of the left is pretty non-inclusive when it comes to a right wing viewpoint.
Well when a lot of those right wing viewpoints limit the rights of them and others they care about, it's easy to see why they wouldn't be too inclusive.
If you disagree how tax revenue should be collected and spent, sure, let's talk. If you think its okay for my gay best friend to get fired because of his sexuality, not so much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by REDVAN
No, he means the entirety of Hollywood.
Why do you always have to be so contrarian when you know what his point is?
But do Trump voters really get to have a say about what Hollywood thinks? They just voted a freaking reality show host as President. Also they voted in Reagan who was part of Hollywood.
They love hearing from celebrities who agree with them, they just don't want to hear it if it doesn't fit their echo chamber.
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
Just to inject some reality back into this thread, Betsy DeVos got pas the Senate in a partisan vote. Education just went in the crapper.
Her's was probably the decision I hated most, outside of Bannon. Having several friends from Michigan, she's pretty infamous for essentially being the devil incarnate. Everyone in that state hates her. I'm so glad I don't plan to have kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree
Right, which is what the lady in the video is talking about. What specific line did you take issue with in the video? The one single line where the only thing she said was that white Americans should acknowledge the existence of privilege? That doesn't mean saying "I have it better than others," it means "there are more doors open for me, than others." It has no judgement on one's ability to walk through that door, so your interpretation of "oppression" is nonsense.
Privilege involves so much more than just economics. It's been proven that an application with a white sounding name is more likely to get considered over a black/latino sounding name. White rural people aren't afraid of being shot of they're pulled over for a traffic violation. Black women make considerably less than white men (and women.) The point of privilege isn't that your life is perfect, but that those minorities often face the same hurdles as you--as well as a few other hurdles of their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlySports
I think the term uneducated whites (or uneducated in general) has a different measurement now. Like the goalposts have been moved. If you were Joe white guy born in 1960 in a small factory town, you got a high school diploma and worked in the factory. Probably the same factory your father and his father worked in. So why would you (in 1978) have gotten a college degree when one was not necessary? You were educated enough to get a job in the town and the people who could not complete high school were the uneducated ones.
Fast forward 40 years and now your factory job is gone and you are suddenly in the uneducated category and deemed (by some) suddenly too stupid to understand the issues and too stupid to vote. That would probably piss you off.
Frankly? Too bad. What happened to the guys making wagons for horses when the car came around? What happened to milkmen when grocery stores started to take over? Progress happens, progress moves forward, and you can't stop it. For a party that's all too happy to tell poor working moms to bootstrap it and get off of welfare, they sure don't like to take responsibility for their own lot in life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
I honestly don't even believe the narrative of globalization and the loss of factory jobs as being a significant component of it.
The biggest impact on the middle class and blue collar workers has been 30 years of increasing austerity. That sacred cow cannot be attacked.
Also the increasing trend away from unionization. Unions gave workers leverage, but in a "right to work" environment, workers aren't a unified front, they're individual cogs, easy to replace with the next. Wages stagnate, employers retain all the power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
They would be crazy to run her again, twice she's been shown as an unlikeable candidate with serious trust issues.
On top of it she's 69 years old, in 4 years 73, I don't know if she'll be able to take a full year campaign.
The democrats to me have some serious problems, they're a party that started believing that their farts smelled like strawberry's and they lost the ability to actually listen, and because of that they were out of touch in this election and couldn't figure out what their message should be.
They need to go into a rebuilding mode, toss out the old guard and find a different candidate.
In any normal election, I think the message would've been easier to get to. Trump refused to talk policy, so it ended up a giant reality show, and only one candidate had reality show experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
The democrats abandoned their base in order to attract dollars to finance campaigns.
Campaign finance reform woould reestore the balance but that is basically impossible at this point.
It has nothing to do with thinking their #### smells like roses and has everything to do with trying to retain power in a system increasingly hostile to their existence.
And this is the issue too. Democrats have been playing by the rules, more or less, all along. Republicans are taking power by force, in very underhanded ways. At this point you almost need Dems to get their hands dirty and fight fire with fire.
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Frankly? Too bad. What happened to the guys making wagons for horses when the car came around? What happened to milkmen when grocery stores started to take over? Progress happens, progress moves forward, and you can't stop it. For a party that's all too happy to tell poor working moms to bootstrap it and get off of welfare, they sure don't like to take responsibility for their own lot in life.
for sure and those who whine and do not improve themselves have only themselves to blame.
But being called uneducated and stupid due to no fault of your own does sting. People just have to tone that down a bit or it sounds super elitist just because someone has a liberal arts degree they think they are a smarter voter than the factory guy.
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Frankly? Too bad. What happened to the guys making wagons for horses when the car came around? What happened to milkmen when grocery stores started to take over? Progress happens, progress moves forward, and you can't stop it. For a party that's all too happy to tell poor working moms to bootstrap it and get off of welfare, they sure don't like to take responsibility for their own lot in life.
Larry the Liquidator - "You know, at one time there must've been dozens of companies making buggy whips. And I'll bet the last company around was the one that made the best goddamn buggy whip you ever saw. Now how would you have liked to have been a stockholder in that company? You invested in a business and this business is dead. Let's have the intelligence, let's have the decency to sign the death certificate, collect the insurance, and invest in something with a future."
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for sure and those who whine and do not improve themselves have only themselves to blame.
But being called uneducated and stupid due to no fault of your own does sting. People just have to tone that down a bit or it sounds super elitist just because someone has a liberal arts degree they think they are a smarter voter than the factory guy.
AH, do they need a safe space? (sound familiar?)
It really is unbelievable the slandering that Trump and the rest of the alt right get away with, and the nitpicking that goes on with the Dems.
Hillary said she wouldn't forget about the coal miners, ie, she would help retrain, reeducate etc. she didn't call them stupid. Trump told them he would bring back their jobs, because saying anything and flat our lying is his MO. That has yet to be seen, and I doubt if it ever will.
Did you hear the one where Trump told blacks they all live in crime ridden ghettos, and they might as well vote for him, because it can't get much worse?
I think this whole Democrats insulted the rural voters is a bit of a stretch.
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Last edited by DuffMan; 01-31-2017 at 02:59 PM.
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AH, do they need a safe space? (sound familiar?)
It really is unbelievable the slandering that Trump and the rest of the alt right get away with, and the nitpicking that goes on with the Dems.
Hillary said she wouldn't forget about the coal miners, ie, she would help retrain, reeducate etc. she didn't call them stupid. Trump told them he would bring back their jobs, because saying anything and flat our lying is his MO. That has yet to be seen, and I doubt if it ever will.
Did you hear the one where Trump told blacks they all live in crime ridden ghettos, and they might as well vote for him, because it can't get much worse?
I think this whole Democrats insulted the rural voters is a bit of a stretch.
not democrats or republicans... people.
Everyone lives in their little bubble and either on the left or the right, one issue can sway them.
I think being called stupid played a role.
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What a load of crap. The only people responsible for Trump being in office are the people who voted for him.
Disagree...the Dems were tone-deaf and beholden to nominating Clinton (an establishment candidate) in an anti-establishment climate. They made a very avoidable strategic error which laid the groundwork for a Trump victory. They failed to realize Clinton matched up very poorly against Trump.
Also the attitude of people who mocked (and continue to mock) the Trump voters need to get over themselves and realise that IT IS COUNTERPRODUCTIVE to be bigoted towards those who saw Trump as a viable option.
The Dems need to get those people onside for 2020 and teasing and ridiculing Trump voters just based on their vote is a mistake as they will feel they have no option anywhere but the Trump camp.
Don't mistake this as an endorsement of bad behaviour....if a Trump voter supports racist or bigoted policies, by all means, tease away.
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