Judging by his post he seems to have a pretty open mind about things. And a lot of the people trying "get control back" are equally closed-minded, they just have different unquestionable sacred dogmas.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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Judging by his post he seems to have a pretty open mind about things. And a lot of the people trying "get control back" are equally closed-minded, they just have different unquestionable sacred dogmas.
The combination of Trump's insanity and the Quebec City shooting is pushing me over the edge. I'm just not ready to have my kids grow up in a world where this kind of #### is "normal," but I'm feeling pretty helpless to change anything. And part of the problem is that... I'm part of the problem!
You're not part of the problem man. If you fit the majority profile of this board, and judging from your username, you're white, male, middle aged, with a job, family, and clearly have empathy for other people.
This whack job was white, male, young, a student, with no success with women, a hateful viewpoint and little to no empathy.
The only things you have in common are being white and male, two of the most superficial identifying traits you could group people together on. Digging deeper into your identities reveals little to no commonalities.
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People are people, don't fall for identity politics or group think where someone is pushing an us vs. them narrative. The differences between individuals are far greater than the differences between groups.
Pretty much. Challenging bad ideas is harder work than condemning groups of people. If you find yourself thinking "It's all the fault of [group of people]," you're doing it wrong.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
I assume you mean false equivalence... and sort of. Actually, I'm not sure that closed-mindedness is the major problem at the moment. Trump doesn't even have a recognizable ideology to treat as absolute to the exclusion of everything else. The problem is that his efforts to senselessly ruin a 240 year old democracy are totally fine by a lot of people, who just don't really seem to care all that much about the principles that country was built on. "Press freedom, the rule of law, religious freedom, tolerance of difference? Pfff, whatever..." It's almost nihilism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
Pretty much. Challenging bad ideas is harder work than condemning groups of people. If you find yourself thinking "It's all the fault of [group of people]," you're doing it wrong.
It's all the fault of people with bad ideas!
CHECK AND MATE.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Dude. Get over your white guilt. You have nothing to feel guilty for despite what the media and some groups have to say. We need to move past identity politics and the idea of race (which is bull#### in the first place. We have 1 race. The human race). Your not responsible for what some lunatic in quebec does just like a muslim is not responsible for the attack in Orlando. We all have personal responsibility in this world.
I think what he is saying is if we all just sit back and chuckle and say "Well there goes that wacky Trump" or "wow what a nutjob that NDP/WR/PC candidate is", then we are enabling the insanity by being too laid back.
I think what he is saying is if we all just sit back and chuckle and say "Well there goes that wacky Trump" or "wow what a nutjob that NDP/WR/PC candidate is", then we are enabling the insanity by being too laid back.
It's not a question of how it affects you emotionally, it's about what impact any form of prejudice has on a person's life.
Simple answer? It doesn't.
I had a watershed moment with my daughter a year ago...out of the blue she said "Daddy, boys can marry boys and girls can marry girls." It wasn't a question, but it was, she was looking for my validation of her point. I recognized at that point that if I answered "No, they can't" she would be influenced by my injection of opinion and she would think it's not okay.
I said, "Of course they can."
And that was the end of the conversation.
So much prejudice and bigotry starts at childhood from parents who learned from their parents to think a certain way. They see and hear everything.
I'll get off my soapbox in a second, but lastly I loved this quote I read recently...
"When we get caught up in the minutiae and the details that make us all different, I think there’s two ways of seeing that. There’s the opportunity to see the texture of that person, the characteristics that make them unique, and then there’s an opportunity to go to war about it and say that this person is different from me, I don’t like you, let’s battle."
Be gentle with the person who has a bad idea, but vigorously challenge the idea and explain the harm that comes with the bad idea. If need be, create a scenario where the person with the bad idea has to deal with the negative consequences of the bad idea and ask them if it maybe gives them pause. When people are forced to be empathic, rarely do they remain rigid and angry.
Don't name call.
Don't assume they're stupid.
Don't get angry.
Don't close your ears when you hear trigger words.
This is the method I use to at least have a dialogue with those I disagree with, and while it doesn't always change their mind, it does force them to consider and defend their position with a little more depth. Many times their position softens. Sometimes I actually change my position too when they make good points.
And don't worry about not being perfect. Our flaws also give us a unique perspective on the world that can sometimes be illuminating. Not everyone has to be an intellectual warrior, but if there's a topic you can speak intelligently about and don't have an issue doing so...go for it, just see my list above. The more discourse out there, the more people have to talk, think, and perhaps come to a consensus that is best for all. Anger and divisiveness rarely leads to a real discourse.
And when all that fails, let them do what they want to do and give them an "I told you so" after they wreck everything. Maybe the next time they'll listen, but I'm sure of one fact: human beings are doomed to repeat their mistakes.
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"You know, that's kinda why I came here, to show that I don't suck that much" ~ Devin Cooley, Professional Goaltender
This has been posted before, but this guy is on the right track.
You have to fight bad ideas if it's something you feel strongly about. Sometimes the bad ideas are people who are just too scared to stand up against the status quo. If Islamists are a problem, it's not wrong to say so. If Trump's policies are whack, it's not a wrong to speak against them. On the other hand, if Trump happens to do something smart, people shouldn't hide behind their insecurity of what their friends might think and they should support a good idea.
If you are feeling like you are part of the problem, you need to not be afraid to stand up for your ideas.
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Food is the answer. All cultures can agree that delicious food is delicious. When I think of Muslims it's the guy who owns the chocolate cafe next door or the others making delicious donairs, schwarma, and kebabs.
Vegans on the other hand, time to start a register and round them up into camps.
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The masses of humanity have always had to surf.
Shame. That's how you get people to stop. People won't stop being bigoted due to logical arguments. People stop when it's no longer socially acceptable to be prejudiced.
Stand up when people are being mistreated. Encourage others to stand up as well.
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Gaudreau > Huberdeau AINEC
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Shame. That's how you get people to stop. People won't stop being bigoted due to logical arguments. People stop when it's no longer socially acceptable to be prejudiced.
Stand up when people are being mistreated. Encourage others to stand up as well.
That's terrible advice. All that does is make people entrench themselves.
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The interwebs and social media specifically are part of the problem. As we all know from discussions on this board, people tend to be emboldened by the relative anonymity and lack of risk from espousing divisive language on the internet. So, more people are spreading hate. Some of it, some of them probably don't even believe in...or at least not to the point they show on the internet and social media.
Then, you have weak minded individuals who believe everything that remotely fits their worldview and are motivated to act. I don't know that there is a solution on a broad scale. It is up to all of us to teach our children not to hate (and not believe everything they see on the internet). With the disintegration of the family structure (and I'm don't mean Mother/Father only, I mean 2 parents) and the demand of society that both parents work in order to maintain some kind of comfortable lifestyle (1st world obviously) that mission has been compromised for the last few decades. I believe, at least in part, what we are seeing is the result of that.
Now, a lot of that may sound like right wing talking points (family values?), but that's not where I'm coming from at all. Society has deteriorated in many demographs, geographs and especially among the impoverished.
I choose not to hate. I choose not to label. I choose to have faith in humans until they show me that faith is unwarranted. I just try to pass that on to my kids and hope they will do the same.
__________________ I am in love with Montana. For other states I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection, but with Montana it is love." - John Steinbeck
Shame. That's how you get people to stop. People won't stop being bigoted due to logical arguments. People stop when it's no longer socially acceptable to be prejudiced.
Yeah, because shame works so well to deter drug and alcohol abuse, obesity, promiscuity, and other social pathologies. Bigotry is rooted in fear. It's also universal - the line between good and evil runs through the middle of every human heart.
The person who carried out the mosque attack - like almost all of these attackers - was a miserable loser. How do you shame someone out of being a miserable loser?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
^^ I didn't mean to literally shame people. Just create a culture where bigotry isn't tolerated and acceptable.
This attack didn't happen because bigotry is tolerated and acceptable in Canada today. It happened because a miserable rogue male found an object on which to crystalize his hatred of life.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Jan 31, 2017... Just end hate. We all came here on different ships, but now we are all in the same boat.(MLK). And Snap... one day the lights go out. You really only have control over yourself and the positivity you put back out into the universe, whether that is your family, friends, or colleagues.
Your positive output is more important than the negativity, bias that you internalize. Also, how much of Trump do you effect. What does it really have to do with your daily life or mine?
