American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS (Archive)

[ernie]

Shockingly the executive order isn't just about refugees wanting to enter the country but a full impact broad ban of those who have already been vetted (refugee or other) and hold green cards and visas. Well I'm not shocked as this is the group that wants to have a Muslim registration which lets be honest has just taken the first step. Next will be rounding up the green card and visa holders from their homes rather than the airports (some of which has happened at us airports). What a joke.

Also what a fantastic way to make many many many more homegrown terrorists! Which of course is what they want. A couple of evil acts committed by muslims will just help them along their path.

I hope to god (who clearly doesn't exist) the courts keep this blocked.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm always surprised by people who are against immigration. It just seems counter-productive to me.

We shouldnt be hampering immigration we should be finding reasonable methods to bridge skills that immigrants had in their home countries with our standards.

I worked at Greyhound and the security guy swinging a flashlight was an ear/nose/throat surgeon in Pakistan.

He cant have been complete crap at it.

We need a way to take these people, determine their level of competency compared to our standard and then have an expedited method to cover the gap.

This is part of the disconnect of the Canadian immigration system and it has been happening for years.

The issue you identified is largely up to the professional bodies. For doctors in particular, if they immigrate to Canada, unless they are from a few specific countries, they will likely never perform a surgery in their lives again.

Even if you were a surgeon in your home country, the Canadian bridging program only allows you to become a GP and you can only start it in Canada (unsure if this has changed recently in the last few years, but it was always been like this). If you became a GP, you could then try to become a surgeon just like any other GP through the residency program, but your previous experience counts for nothing.

So it would take years for any specific specialization, the amount of new immigrants who would opt to do a full surgical residency is next to none.

[calgarygeologist]

It is amazing how much power Saudi Arabia has over the USA. The Bush family is good friends with all sorts of powerful and influential Saudi authorities, Obama wouldn't dare cross Saudi Arabia in any of his dealings and now Trump is cowering to the Saudis by not including them in his Muslim ban.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

This is part of the disconnect of the Canadian immigration system and it has been happening for years.

The issue you identified is largely up to the professional bodies. For doctors in particular, if they immigrate to Canada, unless they are from a few specific countries, they will likely never perform a surgery in their lives again.

Even if you were a surgeon in your home country, the Canadian bridging program only allows you to become a GP and you can only start it in Canada (unsure if this has changed recently in the last few years, but it was always been like this). If you became a GP, you could then try to become a surgeon just like any other GP through the residency program, but your previous experience counts for nothing.

So it would take years for any specific specialization, the amount of new immigrants who would opt to do a full surgical residency is next to none.

Yes...and in general people can't see past that. Especially in Alberta, conservatives are always concerned about their money. Even if the professional bodies made re-certification easier and shorter, people would complain that 'these people' are now clogging up the system whereas they are not at the moment.

"These people are here to clog up healthcare, old age, schools etccc. I'm paying for all this." Not realizing that the immigrant is pumping their gas.

I'm a center-left person probably. I accept and even support my money going to things that don't directly effect me for the betterment of society. But I come across conservatives in Calgary that won't pay a penny for anything outside of their inner circle. No new taxes, no new bridges, no new transit, no new schools because they don't use any of them.

and no new immigrants because they cost money. Muslims and their 5 kids especially.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

It is amazing how much power Saudi Arabia has over the USA. The Bush family is good friends with all sorts of powerful and influential Saudi authorities, Obama wouldn't dare cross Saudi Arabia in any of his dealings and now Trump is cowering to the Saudis by not including them in his Muslim ban.

Trump just has hotel licences there. And in other countries excluded from the Muslim ban...Turkey and Egypt. The US/Saudi relationship is oddest thing though. They literally did 9/11 from top to bottom, funding to execution, and yet there isn't a single thing to see here.

[dash_pinched]

Trump: The less immigrants we let in, the better.
Pence: The fewer.
Trump: Shhh, don't call me that in public yet.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Right, Duterte is accused of allowing thousands of extra judicial killings which far exceeds what Trump has done and really, how many people care. There was some attention a few months ago when he called Obama names but virtually nothing now. Let alone the world caring about Trump making changes to the US's immigration policies.

Who are you to say that nobody cares about that? It's even been mentioned in this thread because Trump has conflicts of interest in regards to this issue.

Spoiler!

[Fuzz]

Anthony Bourdain gets a nice rip in on Trump:

"He only eats steak well done, and if he knows how to use chopsticks, much less is able to grasp them with those tiny little nubbins, I'd be shocked."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment...957087?cmp=rss

[Senator Clay Davis]

Apologies in advance for scaring the #### out of you

[Puppet Guy]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Apologies in advance for scaring the #### out of you

that actually improves Donald's hair.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

This is part of the disconnect of the Canadian immigration system and it has been happening for years.

The issue you identified is largely up to the professional bodies. For doctors in particular, if they immigrate to Canada, unless they are from a few specific countries, they will likely never perform a surgery in their lives again.

Even if you were a surgeon in your home country, the Canadian bridging program only allows you to become a GP and you can only start it in Canada (unsure if this has changed recently in the last few years, but it was always been like this). If you became a GP, you could then try to become a surgeon just like any other GP through the residency program, but your previous experience counts for nothing.

So it would take years for any specific specialization, the amount of new immigrants who would opt to do a full surgical residency is next to none.

If you had a choice on who performs surgery on you. Someone trained in Pakistan with questionable teaching/training standards that only had to do an half-assed bridging in Canada or someone from England that have similar high standards to Canada. Who would you pick?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fire

If you had a choice on who performs surgery on you. Someone trained in Pakistan with questionable teaching/training standards that only had to do an half-assed bridging in Canada or someone from England that have similar high standards to Canada. Who would you pick?

What's the wait time for each surgery

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Fire

If you had a choice on who performs surgery on you. Someone trained in Pakistan with questionable teaching/training standards that only had to do an half-assed bridging in Canada or someone from England that have similar high standards to Canada. Who would you pick?

In your hypothetical does the guy from Pakistan have to have questionable teaching and training AND a half assed bridging in Canada? You're really stacking the deck against this guy all on your own guessing and wording.

Would you rather have chocolate ice cream or vanilla ice cream that got *** on by a seagull then melted on the way to your plate?

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by Fire

If you had a choice on who performs surgery on you. Someone trained in Pakistan with questionable teaching/training standards that only had to do an half-assed bridging in Canada or someone from England that have similar high standards to Canada. Who would you pick?

You are putting a lot of bias into your question here. Why are you assuming the bridging would be half-assed?

edit: jayswin said it better

[Minnie]

I royally pissed off a guy today, by saying I was going to be actively seeking ways to renounce my US citizenship. Said don't come to Canada. Too late bub. Already here. And white. Sorry I pissed you off. But not really. That was just a bonus.

[Codes]

Re-certification processes need to be streamlined and made more affordable for highly-skilled immigrants. I have met far too many people who have advanced degrees and professional designations that are desk jocks, drive cabs, or perform janitorial services. It is a bit of a tragedy given the state of our health care system and lack of doctors. But most heart breaking of all, despite this, these people are genuinely thankful to be here and that their kids can grow up in Canada.

Anyway, this is a deviation away from the current topic. I had to chime in because this is something I feel very strongly about.

[station]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm always surprised by people who are against immigration. It just seems counter-productive to me.

We shouldnt be hampering immigration we should be finding reasonable methods to bridge skills that immigrants had in their home countries with our standards.

I'm of the belief that we'll see a reverse immigration problem in the coming decades. Every major western country now has a birth rate below 2 births per woman which, without immigration, means a declining and aging population which younger generations struggle to support. Technology, education, human rights advancements and normalizing birth rates in the 3rd world may lead to less desire for immigrating to western countries. Which all adds up to a recruitment race. Western countries will be actively recruiting and sponsoring skilled individuals; providing effective bridge programs and work placement. Businesses will be desperate for qualified employees. Countries with universal health care, affordable housing, affordable eduction, and existing multiculturalism will be desirable. Those closing off their borders and trying to freeze their populace into some kind of nationalistic ideal will be in trouble.

I read an article recently (which I can find at the moment) where Canada now has an active recruitment program, not just for Universities but for the high school level, in depressed European countries like Italy and Greece. I can only see this expanding into the Arab world, Africa and southeast Asia in the future.

[Harry Lime]

I agree with everything that has been said above, but that is cherry-picking a very specific case in terms of immigration. Like most things political, one side wants to engage one extreme, and the other side takes the other extreme.

I would support immigration reform in Canada taking into consideration jobless rate against immigration on a sliding scale, and not including children of immigrants on a projection of working age representation of people 20 years from now is just stupid.

That doesn't mean that I believe that the situation pertaining to doctors entering this country is working. It also doesn't mean that believing that some parts of the immigration policy needs tightening makes me a nazi.

To bring the thread back in line with it's intention, it's unfortunate that the election and actions of Trump has created an environment where any discussion of issues plants you at one extreme or the other, and the middle is without representation. Happening in the US now, and getting significantly worse in Canada.

[wwkayaker]

One of the things which has shocked me the most, as Trump rolls out his executive orders, is the political position and beliefs of some of my friends. I'm not talking close friends as those friends and I are on the same page for the most part. It's the 'acquaintance' friends who are shocking me; many are in favour of the immigration ban and back the removal of the Affordable Care Act.

As a Canadian, I have always been proud of our nation's multicultural background. Also, I'm no socialist but, I think people have a right to health care It has been an eye opening week for sure.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by wwkayaker

One of the things which has shocked me the most as Trump rolls out his executive orders is the political position and beliefs of some of my friends. I'm not talking close friends as those friends and I are on the same page for the most part. It's the 'acquaintance' friends who are shocking me; many are in favour of the immigration ban and back the removal of the Affordable Care Act.

As a Canadian, I have always been proud of our nation's multicultural background. Also, I'm no socialist but, I think people have a right to health care It has been an eye opening week for sure.

Most Americans don't know very much politically but they're also a country that talks politics day and night, which leads to a weird and scary result. They just throw on a red or blue jersey and go to war, so don't expect too much critical thinking or actual insight from them, unfortunately.