American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS (Archive)

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by peter12

Sorry, I should've clarified.

The ideological partisanship cleaving American democracy apart finds its echo chamber on Twitter. Yes, the alt-right uses it yes, Trump uses it; yes, every single grotesque Putin-bot uses it; and yes, every single hysterical left-winger uses it as well.
.

Thus is like me saying, I turn on my tv for news, and end up on Fox News Network, so TV is an echo chamber for the alt right.

You're going to find what you're looking for.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Maybe people like to see the little red badge on the bottom of tapatalk and they get some boost of endorphins when they see that they been quoted by a bunch of people.

Tapatalk is an echo chamber for pinko left wing commy loving hippys, dontcha know

[Codes]

Hmmmm....Trump must not have signed any Executive Orders today.

[DuffMan]

He's chit chatting with Putin on the phone today.
He's going to get out negotiated bigly there. Probably want to lift sanctions.

[MissTeeks]

[opendoor]

So Reuters is reporting that the Department of Homeland Security is saying that the ban does apply to green card holders:

People holding so-called green cards, making them legal permanent U.S. residents, are included in President Donald Trump's executive action temporarily barring people from seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the United States, a Department of Homeland security spokeswoman said on Saturday.


"It will bar green card holders," Gillian Christensen, acting Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman, said in an email.

Pretty terrifying if true. Someone could've come over as a refugee 20 years ago, gotten permanent residency in the US, and then get barred from returning home if they were out of the country right now.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by peter12

I think what I try to do (and Corsi too) is get some actual foundation to an argument before continuing on down a path which really just turns into partisan bickering along parallel but never intersecting lines of attack. Not to say that isn't a good thing sometimes.

Essentially, yes - I frequently end up wasting my time in an effort to not waste my time on here. Most people really, really don't want this sort of common starting point. If you can't even agree on the rules of the game (e.g. "making logical sense matters") then there's no point in having a conversation at all. You won't get anywhere useful.

People seem determined to avoid engaging the merits of any argument because (it often seems to me) that they think acknowledging that someone else's view has any merits is somehow conceding their point to some degree.

The abortion issue is the perfect example - one side says, "we value life; you want to make it easier to murder unborn children", the other side says, "you hate women, want to force your regressive religious views on other people and control their bodies." At no point does the discussion focus on any actual relevant points; e.g. when is it acceptable for the state to place limits on peoples' control over their own bodily health, or when does moral personhood begin. Which, yeah, are philosophical questions, and yet they're literally all that matters in deciding who's on the right side of the issue.

People want to skip that step and simply hold their view, be it pro-life or pro-choice, as sacred dogma that's true inherently and need not be questioned or examined ever. But if you care about logic, reason and evidence, you have to have actual defensible reasons for believing things, even if thinking about them is hard.

[troutman]

There are 500,000 with green cards and 25,000 students affected.

https://www.propublica.org/article/t...ing-to-america

[peter12]

Wow, so is this unexpected consequences or what? Wow. We are still in the early stages of the hysteria timeline though. Best to wait until reporters actually know what is going on.

[wwkayaker]

Wow, what a mess. My first thought is for the people who may be stranded from their homes in the USA because they are currently out of the country. Then I think how much hatred for the USA Trump just created. ISIS and other terrorist organizations will be smiling.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

Wow, so is this unexpected consequences or what? Wow. We are still in the early stages of the hysteria timeline though. Best to wait until reporters actually know what is going on.

Well, for one thing it is unconstitutional. As a green card holder you have all the rights and protections of a citizen (with the exception of voting). So to prevent you, as a permanent resident and green card holder, from entering the country, you are being restricted access to what is rightfully yours (access to your home country of the United States of America) because of your race/ethnicity. Seems like this falls under the High Crimes and Misdemeanors discussion. President Trump knowingly signed an unconstitutional executive order.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by troutman

There are 500,000 with green cards and 25,000 students affected.

https://www.propublica.org/article/t...ing-to-america

Does anyone know if this has any impact to people traveling with layovers in the states?

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Does anyone know if this has any impact to people traveling with layovers in the states?

Most likely it will, the order Trump signed says no entry into the US immigrant or non-immigrant if you are from one of the banned countries for the next 90 days.

[peter12]

Good piece by Peggy Noonan (WSJ) on Trump's first week.

It was a programmatic expression of the central assertion of President Trump’s inaugural address: I am a populist independent, allied not with the two major parties but with the working men and women of America. That it came like a barrage — Boom, pipeline! Boom, trade! Boom, abortion! — made it more unmistakable. But in case you missed his point, he told Maggie Haberman of the New York Times that yes, he’s chosen a presidential portrait to put in the Oval Office. It is fiery Andrew Jackson, tormentor of elites, champion of the 19th century’s deplorables.

Read the whole thing.

[Drak]

Lol Peggy Noonan.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Why isn't the link to the Wall Street Journal? I'd rather give them my clicks than some right wing blog.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by Codes

Hmmmm....Trump must not have signed any Executive Orders today.

I expect some sanctions on Russia to be relaxed.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Why isn't the link to the Wall Street Journal? I'd rather give them my clicks than some right wing blog.

WSJ paywall.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Drak

I expect some sanctions on Russia to be relaxed.

I expect him to sign RATO today, the Russian American Treaty Organization for global security.

Or whatever. It's always something new, ridiculous and dangerous.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

Good piece by Peggy Noonan (WSJ) on Trump's first week.



Read the whole thing.

Who makes out big on these executive orders? O&G companies and corporations. There is a reason those CEOs were dancing around like happy puppies, they were just told all barriers to making a fast buck were being lifted. This week was not about the "working men and women of America," this was about gifts to the corporations and restrictions on women's rights. The executive orders trampled all over the reproductive rights of millions of American women. They also trampled all over the sovereignty and self government of Native Americans. This article missed so much of the important subtext of these orders.