Elliot Friedman believes Treliving may not be back next season

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

same reason the oilers don't get a pass on scrivens.

looks like the GM didn't take into account the team he played in front of or the team he was going to. goalies don't exist in a vacuum.

and it's debatable he was one of the bets goalies in the league last year, anyway, when the go to argument for that was "but look at his save percentage"

If you want results, did you watch the playoffs last year? He was a stud and his team went to the 3rd round. Seemed like a pretty good goalie then.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

If you want results, did you watch the playoffs last year? He was a stud and his team went to the 3rd round. Seemed like a pretty good goalie then.

so St. Louis sold high and the flames bit.

good stats, yes. a guy over 30 who has been a career backup or 1B at best. flames were taking a risk as most teams do, when hoping a backup could indeed be 'the man"

so just saying. Treliving would have gotten tons of credit for stealing a great goalie if Elliott was lights out, so he should get blame if it doesn't work out.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

so St. Louis sold high and the flames bit.

good stats, yes. a guy over 30 who has been a career backup or 1B at best. flames were taking a risk as most teams do, when hoping a backup could indeed be 'the man"

so just saying. Treliving would have gotten tons of credit for stealing a great goalie if Elliott was lights out, so he should get blame if it doesn't work out.

You danced around the question though. In his most recent showing, Elliott was a strong starting goalie that was leading his team on a playoff run. Scrivens is a disingenuous comparison. Not saying Treliving gets off on this one, but this was not bringing a backup in and hoping he becomes a starter.

[madmike]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

so St. Louis sold high and the flames bit.

good stats, yes. a guy over 30 who has been a career backup or 1B at best. flames were taking a risk as most teams do, when hoping a backup could indeed be 'the man"

so just saying. Treliving would have gotten tons of credit for stealing a great goalie if Elliott was lights out, so he should get blame if it doesn't work out.

To be fair, it does work sometimes. Talbot's been great for the Oilers.

Treliving rolled the dice and lost. I think it was a worthwhile gamble. At least Treliving had the foresight not to extend him on a monster deal right away. This would all look so much worse if Elliott was signed for $5 million+ for the next 3-4 years.

[calgaryblood]

I wish there was an average option. Treliving to me has been pretty average in his tenure here. A lot of great moves and a lot of bad ones as well.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

I wish there was an average option. Treliving to me has been pretty average in his tenure here. A lot of great moves and a lot of bad ones as well.

I feel he has been average, but average just isn't good enough.

Not saying he shouldn't stay, but I think it's time to show positive results.

[Mister Yamoto]

Button got three years.
Feaster got three years.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by madmike

To be fair, it does work sometimes. Talbot's been great for the Oilers.

Treliving rolled the dice and lost. I think it was a worthwhile gamble. At least Treliving had the foresight not to extend him on a monster deal right away. This would all look so much worse if Elliott was signed for $5 million+ for the next 3-4 years.

Treliving was in on Talbot. Maybe he should have outbid the Oilers but there's no guarantee he would have flourished behind Hartley's Flames. Sometimes it's all about the right fit as Dubnyk bounced around from Oilers, Predators, Coyotes until things worked out in Minneapolis. That said it's on Treliving to get that fit eventually or it will cost him his job. Bishop? MAF? Stay tuned because there will likely be a new goaltender starting between the pipes next season and this next guy needs to work or this rebuild is heading to a dead end.

[Toonage]

Goalies must give Treliving nightmares.

The 3 goalie issue...
The Backstrom era...
In on Talbot, Jones, Andersen, Bishop, got Elliott, probably regrets Elliott, etc...

[Ashasx]

probably would have regretted Bishop more

[Toonage]

It does look that way. Another season with a chunk missed due to injury. Weak overall play and likely a high price tag.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Goalies must give Treliving nightmares.

The 3 goalie issue...
The Backstrom era...
In on Talbot, Jones, Andersen, Bishop, got Elliott, probably regrets Elliott, etc...

Doesn't matter what goalie came to Calgary, they'd have regretted it. Flames are goalie killers.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

probably would have regretted Bishop more

In addition to his body breaking down, equipment is trending in the direction of going smaller which is another consideration one has to take when offering him a contract.

[VladtheImpaler]

There is something to be said for looking for your goalies on bad teams - the guy who can put up half-decent numbers behind a tire fire will probably be ok aywhere (see Dubnyk, Greiss, Luongo, Chad even, etc.). When you get your goalie from a "defensive" team, it's more of a gamble, as you don't know how they will react to a tougher work - Talbot seems to be OK, Elliott not so much. Maybe Reimer was the guy to get.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by bob-loblaw

I haven't read a good portion of this thread, but maybe Burke leaves, Treliving moves up to his role, and Conroy moves up to GM. Boom!

"Boom" as in the team goes up in a hairspray fire ball?

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think you're right in that the flames haven't exactly been crippled by injuries, but it's not like they are leading the league as the healthiest club either.

One thing though that I think speaks directly to the coaching staff is this:

Even though the flames have been short handed 63 more times this season as compared to last season, the Flames have a much improved PK. You can give credit to the goalies, but then, what accounts for the same corresponding increase in the effectiveness of the powerplay?

How can career years be down for basically every Flames player, yet team offense is basically unchanged as compared to the previous year? They've even received basically the same amount of powerplays while having to kill off an extra 63 penalties.

Coaching.

Here's how the numbers look...

For the returning core players (Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Giordano, Brodie, & Hamilton): Last year they scored 114 goals. This season they're on pace for 85. 29 goals less.

For the returning non-core players (Backlund, Frolik, Ferland, Stajan, Bouma, & Wideman): Last year they scored 50 goals. This year they're on pace for 69. 19 goals more.

Finally, the guys that were moved out (Colborne, Hudler, Jones, & Jooris) scored 42 goals last year. The new guys brought in this season (Tkachuk, Versteeg, Brouwer, & Chiasson) are on pace for 57 goals, 15 more.

My analysis: Treliving does the job of upgrading the roster player-wise (particularly if you take into account goaltending which, while it hasn't been lights-out this season, it's clearly better than last year's clusterfata), but Gulutzen gets less out of it, particularly at the top end.

What does this mean for judging Treliving's success and whether he should be brought back... I think he's done the nuts & bolts of GMing well; he's signed more good contracts than bad and upgraded the roster and the franchise's depth overall. However, he's also hamstrung the team the last two years: Once by failing to address the obvious goaltending problem the entire season, and once by whiffing on his head coach pick.

So, if you're an owner and you're looking at a guy who made some decent moves, but has failed to maintain the trajectory of on-ice success that it appeared to be on through self-inflicted wounds, do you buck up and give him the long-term extension I expect he's looking for, or do you make a move?

I'm really on the fence, but ultimately think you bring him back unless he's adamant that Gulutzen is his guy. He's done more good than bad, and is young enough that I expect the ratio to improve more and more in the future.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by bob-loblaw

I haven't read a good portion of this thread, but maybe Burke leaves, Treliving moves up to his role, and Conroy moves up to GM. Boom!

If Burke leaves, I'd think that Maloney taking over the President of Hockey Ops role would be more likely.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

There is something to be said for looking for your goalies on bad teams - the guy who can put up half-decent numbers behind a tire fire will probably be ok aywhere (see Dubnyk, Greiss, Luongo, Chad even, etc.). When you get your goalie from a "defensive" team, it's more of a gamble, as you don't know how they will react to a tougher work - Talbot seems to be OK, Elliott not so much. Maybe Reimer was the guy to get.

I just don't understand why codynw is willing to give Treliving a pass on it.

Elliott is a good goalie and had some nice numbers on a defensive team.
I also don't see where there was anything indicate that Elliott could be your #1 guy and play well over 60+ games.
Treliving rolled the dice, and so far it looks like he was wrong. all he gets credit for is being smart enough to not extend him.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I just don't understand why codynw is willing to give Treliving a pass on it.

Elliott is a good goalie and had some nice numbers on a defensive team.
I also don't see where there was anything indicate that Elliott could be your #1 guy and play well over 60+ games.
Treliving rolled the dice, and so far it looks like he was wrong. all he gets credit for is being smart enough to not extend him.

Literally not a person in the planet thought going with Elliott was rolling the dice. What a strange take

[bob-loblaw]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

"Boom" as in the team goes up in a hairspray fire ball?

Nah, more like "Kaboom" and the Saddledome get's taken out too.

You never know though as they have Maloney waiting in the wings like Feaster was when Sutter left. It could be the way ownership is thinking. Didn't Treliving also run a league and the Coyote farm team in the past? Maybe that's what he's more suited for.

For Conroy, I'm curious to know thoughts of him and his GM potential from around the league. It sounds like he's busy all the time and has had some good input on selecting young players. He may be ready to step up or move on considering he's been in his role for a few years so it might not be too crazy.