Elliot Friedman believes Treliving may not be back next season - Page 9 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Par · 01-23-2017, 11:35 AM

Firing of Hartley,

And hiring of Gultzan,

Not getting a good true #1 goalie,

Not getting a good #3-4 D man,

Not getting a good true top 6 forward(RW)

These things will be the downfall of Brad Trevling.

Cecil Terwilliger · 01-23-2017, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Oh come on. Gaudreau didn't have a contract last summer and it was the most important piece of Flames news for like 5 months. Treliving going into the offseason without a contract is like letting a big name UFA go to free agency just because, except, it's probably even worse, because this particular UFA is in charge of the entire roster.

Like Friedman says, NO ONE ELSE DOES THIS, why do the Flames think this is a good idea?

Friedman confirms that there is an organizational hesitancy to be 'sellers' at the deadline, a problem which has plagued this organization going back to before Feaster. It's just fundamentally wrong headed and probably a significant reason the only constant for the Flames organization for the last 25 years has been incompetence.

I'm not saying it isn't news. I don't even have a problem with people pointing out that the Flames way of handling it is at odds with how the rest of the league handles it.

At the end of the day though, Treliving is an adult, and he understands negotiations and business. He knows that there may still be question marks surrounding his time with the Flames and that ownership/senior management haven't yet come to a decision on what type of contract, if any, he has earned up to this point.

It is way too early to act like this is some giant screw up by the Flames and we are being hoisted back into the Feaster-O'reilly era of organizational embarrassment.

nik- · 01-23-2017, 11:40 AM

Every time someone mentions firing Hartley as a negative I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Did one playoff series win riding insane luck just erase everyone's memory of everything else?

jonkaupp · 01-23-2017, 11:41 AM

Gulutzan hasn't had a great start as the coach of the team but it seems everyone is forgetting that this team is playing quite a bit better than they did under Hartley last year. I don't think the firing of Hartley was a blunder at all. Time will tell on Gulutzan, and it doesn't look great as of now, but I think it is certainly too early to make a definitive judgement on him.

Ownership would be insane to let Brad go and I think that's a pretty ubiquitous opinion among Flames fans. The Hamilton trade on its own bought him 3 years imo. Also, Eliot has definitely been playing better the past two months so I think it's too early to write that off as well. Imo they should start using him as the primary no 1 now and see how it goes. If he falls on his face again then you can say it was a disaster.

taco.vidal · 01-23-2017, 11:41 AM

Im telling ya that both Treliving and Gully will be gone. New GM will hire his own guy.

Igottago · 01-23-2017, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

Every time someone mentions firing Hartley as a negative I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Did one playoff series win riding insane luck just erase everyone's memory of everything else?

Its not the firing that's necessarily the problem. If you want to remove an experienced Jack Adams winning coach with a cup ring you better have a good replacement up next. The failure to get Boudreau and the luke warm reaction to how things are with Gulutzan are probably the bigger sources of criticism.

Dr. Doom · 01-23-2017, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Par

Firing of Hartley,

And hiring of Gultzan,

Not getting a good true #1 goalie,

Not getting a good #3-4 D man,

Not getting a good true top 6 forward(RW)

These things will be the downfall of Brad Trevling.

People can up in arms until they are blue in the face but the first 3 points in particular are haunting Treliving.

Think about it folks... we went from 2nd round playoffs and coach of the year to no playoffs, fired coach of the year, and goaltender woes...

None of which are getting better...

I'd be annoyed as well if I'm ownership.

Flash Walken · 01-23-2017, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

People can up in arms until they are blue in the face but the first 3 points in particular are haunting Treliving.

Think about it folks... we went from 2nd round playoffs and coach of the year to no playoffs, fired coach of the year, and goaltender woes...

None of which are getting better...

I'd be annoyed as well if I'm ownership.

bull####, the flames are better in every statistical category than they were under Hartley.

It would not surprise me if ownership used this line of thinking, but it would be a bull#### line of thinking.

Ryan Coke · 01-23-2017, 11:50 AM

Treliving has been pretty good, not great, but enough that I would keep him for the sake of stability.

If he gets let go, it is kind of a live by the sword, die by the sword scenario with the way he fired Hartley. Treliving decided to can Hartley pretty fast after a year with terrible goaltending instead of giving him a year with good goaltending and some opportunity to make adjustments. He was impatient with Hartley, instead of erring on the side of stability, and now he may be getting judged the same way.

Hopefully they keep Treliving and replace Gulutzan. That coaching hire appears to be his biggest mistake, but hopefully he gets the opportunity to correct it.

genetic_phreek · 01-23-2017, 11:50 AM

I didn't mind the hiring of Gully. I think the downfall with that hiring is you need to understand what you have in personnel and get the right coach for that. If you bring in a coach knowing what system he wants to deploy, you need to start looking at the roster and making moves to work with that system.

Personally I feel that's where the disconnect with our team is and for sure that's on Treliving. What roster moves did Treliving actually do to improve the Flames so far since putting his stamp on the team? I don't even know what the identity of this team is anymore.

FlamesAddiction · 01-23-2017, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

Im telling ya that both Treliving and Gully will be gone. New GM will hire his own guy.

It depends.

Some GMs like to keep the old coach around for a year or two. That way when things don't workout, they can always use their "get out of jail free" card and fire the coach. Treliving's "problem" was that Hartley went and won the Jack Adams. He had to wait for the team to come back down to Earth before letting him go.

Flash Walken · 01-23-2017, 11:55 AM

I wonder if this is a signal the Flames will be going back to the old management system of ownership telling the GM and coach what to do.

If Burke is indeed going to be going to hockey USA after this season it may be an indication the Flames don't plan on having a bulwark between GM and ownership and preferred when Feaster/Craig Button was 'yes-man'ing the show.

Wiggum_PI · 01-23-2017, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

bull####, the flames are better in every statistical category than they were under Hartley.

It would not surprise me if ownership used this line of thinking, but it would be a bull#### line of thinking.

Except in the wins/losses column. The Flames record this season is almost identical to what it was last year.

yourbestfriend · 01-23-2017, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Par

Firing of Hartley,

And hiring of Gultzan,

Not getting a good true #1 goalie,

Not getting a good #3-4 D man,

Not getting a good true top 6 forward(RW)

These things will be the downfall of Brad Trevling.

Building a team, especially in a rebuild takes a lot of time.
Some of the things you mentioned, we could have gone out and gotten, but it wouldn't have fit the teams philosophy regarding the rebuild.

Could we have gotten Bishop? Maybe. We certainly made an offer, but Bishop wouldn't waive. Lets say it had it gone through, it probably would have cost us Tkachuk. Do you make that trade?

True top6 forward. Lucic, Ladd, Okposo, Eriksson and Backes were the big 2016 UFA's. We probably could have gotten one of them, but woulda cost us a minimum of 6x6MM and would have made it difficult for us to sign Gaudreau and Monahan. You don't sign any of those guys at the expense of our players.

3/4 Dman. I do think this is the area where he could take the most crap. With that being said, I think he knew it would have been difficult to sign a true 4D on July01 due to our cap and gambled on the fact that Wideman could still play. I also think he is hedging that one of Kulak, Wotherspoon, Andersson or Kylington would be able to jump in next year.

The other option is to trade for the pieces, but lets face it, we don't really have the prospects nor are we willing to depart with draft picks for those key pieces.

It's really only been 2.5years since he's been hired. I think it would be illogical and frankly, irresponsible if he were to bring in a 1G, 3/4D and a top6 winger 2.5years into a rebuild.
He's made the right moves so far, I still believe in him

IamNotKenKing · 01-23-2017, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Wasn't that because they had an understanding that he could stay as long as he wanted?

Yup

Flash Walken · 01-23-2017, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

Except in the wins/losses column. The Flames record this season is almost identical to what it was last year.

Flames have 2 more wins at this point in the season than last.

The Flames are better in every statistical category.

TheIronMaiden · 01-23-2017, 12:04 PM

Honest question, if Hartley was that good, why doesn't he have a job in the NHL right now?

Wiggum_PI · 01-23-2017, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Flames have 2 more wins at this point in the season than last.

The Flames are better in every statistical category.

Wow, 2 more wins, what a drastic improvement over last season!

Flash Walken · 01-23-2017, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

Wow, 2 more wins, what a drastic improvement over last season!

lol, I guess there is no convincing you, you've made up your mind.

Locke · 01-23-2017, 12:05 PM

Yeah, I dont want to say that this is 'much ado about nothing' because Treliving not having a contract while going into the Trade Deadline seems rather significant to me.

But nowhere do I see any evidence of lost confidence in him from management.

Hes made some mistakes, sure, but that was bound to happen. At the same time I think there are some things that are being attributed to him as mistakes that he really didnt have all that much control over such as seemingly good goaltenders forgetting how to play in net and the coaching...well I'm torn on that still.

If hes still around near the Trade Deadline then I imagine that this is one of those scenarios where his contract is more or less established they just havent gotten around to the signing part of it yet.