Current coach's challenge and video review format

[getbak]

Originally Posted by flamesfan6

The hilarious thing is that before this you all wanted this, now that they have this you don't want it.

Nope. I've been complaining about it from the day it was announced. It was stupid then. It's stupid now.

[theinfinitejar]

The offside challenges suck, if the linesman can't see it in real time, 99.99% of the time it was close enough. Maybe we should review dump-ins too just to make sure the guy really made the red line and didn't dump it from 2mm behind.

[AC]

I actually don't hate the idea of the challenge. I think the problem is the offside rule in general.

Make it a vertical plane that determines if a player is offsides or not, and it should become more black and white. At least instead of determining if a player did everything right except his blade just lifted off the ice early.

A goal is determined when the puck crosses the vertical plane of the goal line, so why not offsides?

It should be easier for the linesman to call correctly as well if he's looking down the blueline.

[Robbob]

Even if that is the just the standard for offside reviews it would make things better. You would only get challenges for the blatant missed ones, which was the intent of this in the first place

[N-E-B]

It just seems really petty to me. Totally wrecks the flow of the game and can ruin momentum. Never been a fan of it. Human error has always been a part of the game when it comes to officials. Will teams eventually be able to challenge penalties too now? At some point they have to say enough is enough. Technology is both a blessing and a curse.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Replay is ruining sports. Baseball and the CFL are even worse than the NHL. It's went from getting the right call to Just being a tactic deployed to look for any sliver of evidence to get a call overturned. To me it now violates the spirit of the game. I'd rather human error than debating for ten minutes if a play was one inch offside or whether the spike of a cleat was touching a base or not.

[savemedrzaius]

If a team can challenge that the goalie was impeded why can't they challenge that a player was interfered with that could have stopped the opposing player from scoring? Or challenge that a slash on a player's hand that went uncalled led to a goal?

The goaltender interference challenge is the worst. Plus it's unclear what will be called...I literally have no idea what the call will be once there is a coach's challenge on goaltender interference.

[MarkGio]

I wish they took human refs off the ice and out of the game. Nothing is more dumb than to have human error control and manage the game.

[united]

I like it.

It's been evident for years now that NHL referees are the worst officials in professional sports (aside from the convicted match fixers), but the challenge has exposed just how bad NHL linesmen are, too. For years I would watch games and say to myself "that was offside" - usually with nothing exceptional happening afterward - but current replay shows even I, and countless others, from hundreds of feet away or watching in real time on TV, get it wrong less often than the linesman right there do.

The next step is having accountability for the officials. Mark Cuban, in the NBA, is routinely fined and criticized for questioning why veteran officials with lengthy lists of blatantly wrong or downright missed calls are still employed, and the NHL has the same problem. If the majority of the population is bad at their job, they lose their job. If you're an NHL official, it's a lifetime gig regardless of performance. On a rush, the linesman has one job: is this offside or not? It really isn't hard to figure out - or shouldn't be.

Offside is a rule and should be called correctly. The other thing NHL linesmen are routinely and by all accounts purposely brutal at calling? Icing. The rule is the red line, yet every game there is players bailing out and dumping it down from 5 feet short of the red line. Call it as it should be or don't have icing at all - or change it to blue line like many beer leagues. As much as people mock travelling in the NBA, icing in the NHL is just as bad.

But, I also support Delay of Game penalties for unsuccessful challenges in the current system. A timeout in the NFL is worth magnitudes more than a timeout in the NHL, so the comparison is terrible.

[blender]

Originally Posted by united

I like it.

It's been evident for years now that NHL referees are the worst officials in professional sports (aside from the convicted match fixers), but the challenge has exposed just how bad NHL linesmen are, too. For years I would watch games and say to myself "that was offside" - usually with nothing exceptional happening afterward - but current replay shows even I, and countless others, from hundreds of feet away or watching in real time on TV, get it wrong less often than the linesman right there do.

The next step is having accountability for the officials. Mark Cuban, in the NBA, is routinely fined and criticized for questioning why veteran officials with lengthy lists of blatantly wrong or downright missed calls are still employed, and the NHL has the same problem. If the majority of the population is bad at their job, they lose their job. If you're an NHL official, it's a lifetime gig regardless of performance. On a rush, the linesman has one job: is this offside or not? It really isn't hard to figure out - or shouldn't be.

Offside is a rule and should be called correctly. The other thing NHL linesmen are routinely and by all accounts purposely brutal at calling? Icing. The rule is the red line, yet every game there is players bailing out and dumping it down from 5 feet short of the red line. Call it as it should be or don't have icing at all - or change it to blue line like many beer leagues. As much as people mock travelling in the NBA, icing in the NHL is just as bad.

I agree with your general sentiment, but I happened to be watching NBA highlights lately and I don't think icing is nearly as bad as traveling.

[You Need a Thneed]

My thoughts on how offside challenges should be handled:

If a goal is scored within 10 seconds of the questionable offside, the coach can challenge after the goal is scored.

If the goal happens more than 10 seconds after the questionable offside, it can only be reviewed if the coach triggered some kind of switch on the bench within 10 seconds of the offside. If the coach has triggered the switch, the play will be reviewed at the next whistle no matter whether a goal has been scored or not. If the team challenging has a timeout, they lose it if the challenge is unsuccessful. If the team does not have a timeout, they will receive a minor penalty if the challenge is unsuccessful.

The idea behind these two conditions, is that if the offside directly leads to goal, they can review down to the mm. However, if the offside doesn't directly lead to a goal, the coach better be very sure it was offside in order to challenge it.

Also, so it's easier to check, remove requirements for skates to be touching the ice, make the offside line a vertical plane.

[dino7c]

if its on the rush that is one thing...but to go back a minute and call a goal back that had nothing to do with the offside play is stupid.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by flamesfan6

the best thing is that if these goals were against us and waived off, no one here would have an issue. Heck if they counted you probably would say "why didn't we challenge that? it was offside"

You know, "if it wasn't against your team you wouldn't have a problem" is one of the laziest, most intellectually dishonest arguments a person can make. Making such an argument, frankly, only calls you out as a someone not to be taken seriously.

What people wanted replay for was to get rid of blatant mistakes like this. What people did not want was to see the game slowed right down and goals taken away because two linesmen staring at a six inch screen think that a guy might have been offside by the width of a penis hair. What we ended up with (and so too did MLB, incidentally) was a solution worse than the problem it was meant to eliminate. And that is true whether or not it benefits or harms the Flames.


There's really three things to do to improve this:

-First, make it so the offside rule is that a player's body must be on the plane of the blue line, even if not touching it.

-Second, take the video monitors off the bench and severely restrict how much time a coach has to challenge. They shouldn't be allowed to deliberate first. If you think it was a bad call, signal the off-ice officials immediately, or too bad.

-Third, two minute delay of game penalty if you're wrong.

Combine these three, and the rule begins to function as it was intended: to catch and reverse blatant mistakes.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by dino7c

if its on the rush that is one thing...but to go back a minute and call a goal back that had nothing to do with the offside play is stupid.

i'm usually all for the "if you can get the call right, then do so" argument, but in this case, i agree. If the barely offside call was missed on a rush that resulted in a goal, then the review does seem fitting. however, for an offside that goes unnoticed and a goal is scored not as part of the rush, it seems a bit off.

the problem i have with making any change to the rule is it is too subjective to qualify what would be reviewable or not (ie. if offside is within x seconds of the goal??) so though i don't like it, i think it has to stay.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by AC

I actually don't hate the idea of the challenge. I think the problem is the offside rule in general.

Make it a vertical plane that determines if a player is offsides or not, and it should become more black and white. At least instead of determining if a player did everything right except his blade just lifted off the ice early.

A goal is determined when the puck crosses the vertical pane of the goal line, so why not offsides?

It should be easier for the linesman to call correctly as well if he's looking down the blueline.

Exactly correct.
Was the skate on the ice? Who cares. If it has not crossed the vertical plane, it's good.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You know, "if it wasn't against your team you wouldn't have a problem" is one of the laziest, most intellectually dishonest arguments a person can make. Making such an argument, frankly, only calls you out as a someone not to be taken seriously.

What people wanted replay for was to get rid of blatant mistakes like this. What people did not want was to see the game slowed right down and goals taken away because two linesmen staring at a six inch screen think that a guy might have been offside by the width of a penis hair. What we ended up with (and so too did MLB, incidentally) was a solution worse than the problem it was meant to eliminate. And that is true whether or not it benefits or harms the Flames.


There's really three things to do to improve this:

-First, make it so the offside rule is that a player's body must be on the plane of the blue line, even if not touching it.

-Second, take the video monitors off the bench and severely restrict how much time a coach has to challenge. They shouldn't be allowed to deliberate first. If you think it was a bad call, signal the off-ice officials immediately, or too bad.

-Third, two minute delay of game penalty if you're wrong.

Combine these three, and the rule begins to function as it was intended: to catch and reverse blatant mistakes.

I don't think you can pick and choose what degree of offside is a worthy of calling a goal back. Offside is offside whether it be by an inch or two feet. It sucked seeing those goals called back but they were both technically offside. As you say they need to adjust the rules accordingly but those two goals were offside according to the rules so Flames fans really shouldn't be overly upset at the rules or challenge. It's on the players at the end of the day to ensure they are onside on a rush.

I don't agree though with a delay of game penalty though as you are penalizing coaches for challenging close plays. Personally I would just scrap the replay for offside as there's a reason the NFL and CFL don't use replay for false starts, offside, no-yards, etc as there are going to be plenty of instances in fast sports where there are going to be small error and trying to correct all of them would slow down the game and result in ticky tack penalties. We have seen a small number of really bad offside on-calls result in goals prior to the rule change but I don't know if it was really worth bringing this rule in that has resulted in plenty more goals taken off the score sheet due to inches or less. To me that's too much micromanagement especially in a league where offense is drying up.

[Rollin22x]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Exactly correct.
Was the skate on the ice? Who cares. If it has not crossed the vertical plane, it's good.

This the part I don't like. Why does the players skate have to be touching the ice? Touching or not, the player is still in the same location.
The 2 challenges last night killed some momentum and would have been even more frustrating at the game.
It doesn't help one bit when the Panthers coach looks like a d!ck. I mean this as intellectually and not physically.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blender

I agree with your general sentiment, but I happened to be watching NBA highlights lately and I don't think icing is nearly as bad as traveling.

I actually think they should call icing less. IMO a pass that the recipient misses (but comes within reach) shouldn't be icing, especially when they are being covered.

As for offside coaches' challenges, I'd like to see the extent to which they are actually affecting the game.

[CsInMyBlood]

I'm fine with those goals getting called back. They were offside on both plays. Don't want to be offside? Drag your back leg. The rule is on the ice, so the call is correct.

Also who cares if the team is in the zone for a minute? If they entered offside then they shouldn't be there in the first place.

This is why it kills me when Gulutzan challenges things that are obviously not going to be called back. I'm not sure who it is that makes the decision but if it's somebody whispering in Glens ear to do it, there have been some bad advice in multiple games this season.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

I'm fine with those goals getting called back. They were offside on both plays. Don't want to be offside? Drag your back leg. The rule is on the ice, so the call is correct.

Also who cares if the team is in the zone for a minute? If they entered offside then they shouldn't be there in the first place.

This is why it kills me when Gulutzan challenges things that are obviously not going to be called back. I'm not sure who it is that makes the decision but if it's somebody whispering in Glens ear to do it, there have been some bad advice in multiple games this season.

If the team is gassed it's still a valid strategy to stall and break up the other team's momentum though, even when you know the challenge isn't winnable.

EDIT - Here's an offside in the Jets/Caps game that was said to be a good goal, despite the trailing leg of the Jets player not being grounded when the puck enters the zone.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/g...inst-capitals/