[PGT] Flames 1 Oilers 2

[flameester]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It's possible Hartleys system masked some offensive shortcomings. The D are not providing any offense at the moment.

The D are not providing or not allowed to provide any offense?

It is clearly the coaches that have put the reigns on the D not wanting them to help with the offense.

[flameester]

I think the reason that there have been next to no comebacks this year is that the coaches don't want the players to deviate from their game plan no matter if they are down by a goal or two or if they are up by a goal.

Hartley would unleash them and do all they could to even the score.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by flameester

Hartley would unleash them and do all they could to even the score.

The issue was that Hartley unleashed them every game from the opening faceoff. It was great for comebacks but it was also the reason they were behind in many games in the first place. The way they are playing now is more conducive to winning long term and the team is unfortunately a little short on offensive talent along the wings which is why this team is struggling to score.

Honestly would any of you believe a team in the NHL could be in a playoff spot with Alex Chiasson playing on the top line? If you go through all the top lines in the league you probably aren't going to find many that sport a lesser skilled winger on their top line. This team badly needs more skilled wingers and less Troy Brouwer types.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

..... This team badly needs more skilled wingers and less Troy Brouwer types.

This team needs Brouwer types too, but paying up for them limits you in ability to pay for skill instead.

[Poe969]

I agree with what EE said, even the Troy Brouwer types. Every team needs players like that but for too long this team only seemed to want "tough 2 way" players and less skilled players. Even now, some fans on here are 100% opposed to getting a skilled guy because he's not tough enough or has no 2 way game. I agree that in the west you need to be tough but you also need to be able to score and this team just seems like they can't because there is a lack of dynamic skilled players other than Johnny. This team has a really great line of Backs, Frolik and Tkachuck and they're great 2 way players so now they need to focus on getting more skill. I would put Johnny, Bennett and Brower together then put Monahan and Versteeg with a skilled winger. Chiasson would be a good 4th line guy but he just seems to be dragging down the top line.

[DuffMan]

I was at this the game, and the guys beside us were booing and wouldn't shut up about how boring it was. I'd agree for the 1st period, but it picked up after that.
I'd say the Flames outplayed them, but lost a close one. Didn't even notice mcJesus that much. Was a weird OT, seemed like they were trying to run out the clock.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by flameester

The D are not providing or not allowed to provide any offense?

It is clearly the coaches that have put the reigns on the D not wanting them to help with the offense.

It's not really that surprising. Objective #1 this off-season was to cut down the GA. That was also pretty much the unanimous opinion on CP. This should come a surprise to literally no one that we are sacrificing offence on the back end for more defence.

That means that unfortunately, the team is going to have games and streaks like this where we lose 2-1 and aren't able to score at will anymore and it seems the offence is sputtering. It also means we allow less goals against and hopefully win more 1 goal games then we lose. I can't find the stat, but I know the Flames are still near the top of the league when it comes to winning 1 goal games. This is why it's important to have a strong PP, which luckily the Flames seem to have for the time being.

EE is right in saying that the team will struggle to score, but hopefully it balances itself out in the end with more wins as the season goes along.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

I was at this the game, and the guys beside us were booing and wouldn't shut up about how boring it was. I'd agree for the 1st period, but it picked up after that.
I'd say the Flames outplayed them, but lost a close one. Didn't even notice mcJesus that much. Was a weird OT, seemed like they were trying to run out the clock.

I recall some commentator saying it would take about a year or 2 for NHL coaches to ruin 3 on 3 OT. And although it is still entertaining, it used to be so much more exciting.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I recall some commentator saying it would take about a year or 2 for NHL coaches to ruin 3 on 3 OT. And although it is still entertaining, it used to be so much more exciting.

yup. initially 3 on 3 was fantastic as it was essentially back and forth odd man rushes (1 on 0s, 2 on 1s, 3 on 1s) as one team would go all in to try to score, but if they didn't they'd be racing back trying to catch up on the odd man rush.

however, now, it seems teams are playing far more carefully, and ensuring they aren't getting caught with 2 guys in deep. all this skating the puck OUT of the zone with possession is so boring to watch.

until they make the loser point less meaningful, the coaching will always evolve the game into a game biased towards defensive play. I really think some form of 3 points for ROW and 1 point for a OT/Shootout loss, would make coaches far more aggressive in their approach to the game.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

yup. initially 3 on 3 was fantastic as it was essentially back and forth odd man rushes (1 on 0s, 2 on 1s, 3 on 1s) as one team would go all in to try to score, but if they didn't they'd be racing back trying to catch up on the odd man rush.

however, now, it seems teams are playing far more carefully, and ensuring they aren't getting caught with 2 guys in deep. all this skating the puck OUT of the zone with possession is so boring to watch.

until they make the loser point less meaningful, the coaching will always evolve the game into a game biased towards defensive play. I really think some form of 3 points for ROW and 1 point for a OT/Shootout loss, would make coaches far more aggressive in their approach to the game.

I just thought of something.

Win gets you two points, loss gets you 0, no matter what. If a game is tied after regulation, play a 5 minute 3 on 3 overtime. If it's still tied, call it a tie and award 0 points to both teams. So a tie is essentially a loss for both teams. I'd think teams would be more willing to go for a win then.

[flameester]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The issue was that Hartley unleashed them every game from the opening faceoff. It was great for comebacks but it was also the reason they were behind in many games in the first place. The way they are playing now is more conducive to winning long term and the team is unfortunately a little short on offensive talent along the wings which is why this team is struggling to score.

Honestly would any of you believe a team in the NHL could be in a playoff spot with Alex Chiasson playing on the top line? If you go through all the top lines in the league you probably aren't going to find many that sport a lesser skilled winger on their top line. This team badly needs more skilled wingers and less Troy Brouwer types.

I agree that you win more when you reduce your goals against but if you are losing in the 3rd period would you not do whatever you could to win?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by flameester

I agree that you win more when you reduce your goals against but if you are losing in the 3rd period would you not do whatever you could to win?

I'm sure Gulutzan is activating his defenseman late in games where they are behind. Over a long 82 game season there will be nights where the energy and compete level doesn't match their opponents like Friday against the Devils but there have been plenty of games where the Flames have outchanced their opponents and just haven't had the finish. Those high shooting percentages under Hartley weren't going to last forever.

Look I'm not a huge Gulutzan fan. I like what he's done in getting the team to play better possession hockey but I'm not a fan of his utilization of skilled forwards and defense pairings. IMO he's a 2nd tier head coach and the Flames team we have today is exactly as ordered as it's very similar to his Stars teams that hovered around .500. That said he's going nowhere for at least this season and next so my hope is that if the team can add more offensive talent we may be able to see if Gulutzan can do more with it as he's still at a stage where he can improve as a coach. As miserable as this season feels they are still in a playoff position so best thing we can do is hope that guys like Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, etc can get back on track as that would go a long way to making this team a playoff contender rather than right now where they look like a pretender.

[blender]

[QUOTE=Erick Estrada;6085255]
As miserable as this season feels /QUOTE]
Man, this season feels great. Flames are competitive and playing important games.

Tough crowd, I guess.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

yup. initially 3 on 3 was fantastic as it was essentially back and forth odd man rushes (1 on 0s, 2 on 1s, 3 on 1s) as one team would go all in to try to score, but if they didn't they'd be racing back trying to catch up on the odd man rush.

however, now, it seems teams are playing far more carefully, and ensuring they aren't getting caught with 2 guys in deep. all this skating the puck OUT of the zone with possession is so boring to watch.

until they make the loser point less meaningful, the coaching will always evolve the game into a game biased towards defensive play. I really think some form of 3 points for ROW and 1 point for a OT/Shootout loss, would make coaches far more aggressive in their approach to the game.

I am of the school of thought that feels 2 points for the win, zero points for the loss. OT or otherwise. Win and you get points. Pretty damned simple.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by blender

Man, this season feels great. Flames are competitive and playing important games.

Tough crowd, I guess.

Totally agree.

Our worst forward is former 15-goal-scorer Lance Bouma, our worst defenseman is Finnish World Cup team member Jyrki Jokipakka, and our worst goaltender is two-time All-Star Brian Elliott.

I'll take that any day over having to watch Kevin Westgarth, Shane O'Brien, and Joey MacDonald.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

It's not really that surprising. Objective #1 this off-season was to cut down the GA. That was also pretty much the unanimous opinion on CP. This should come a surprise to literally no one that we are sacrificing offence on the back end for more defence.

Exactly. If you didn't think the Flames would be more defensively focused this season after all Treliving and Burke had to say about lowering the goals against and special teams, you weren't paying close enough attention.

That means that unfortunately, the team is going to have games and streaks like this where we lose 2-1 and aren't able to score at will anymore and it seems the offence is sputtering. It also means we allow less goals against and hopefully win more 1 goal games then we lose. I can't find the stat, but I know the Flames are still near the top of the league when it comes to winning 1 goal games. This is why it's important to have a strong PP, which luckily the Flames seem to have for the time being.

There is a bizarre narrative from some of the fanbase that this Flames team is somehow being held back by Gulutzan, that he is stifling the 'skill' on the roster which is balderdash. A huge part of the reason the Flames were 'activating' the defense was because the Flames don't have the horses up front to score enough goals. Subtracting guys like Colborne and Hudler and even guys like Jooris and David Jones, and replacing them with Brouwer and Chiasson and Hamilton and Hathaway isn't going to get you any more goals but it WILL help you defend and hold leads.

EE is right in saying that the team will struggle to score, but hopefully it balances itself out in the end with more wins as the season goes along.

It already is balancing itself out if you look at the snake or the standings.

This season has been pretty predictable all things considered.

[TheIronMaiden]

The Flames schedule till the end of the month:


vs
Panthers
Predators
Oilers

@
Maple Leafs
Canadiens
Senators


There are only two games which are directly critical to the playoffs. The Flames could easily walk away with 5 wins in this stretch. I am still hopeful that the Flames will continue their solid play from last game into the next two weeks.

[Erick Estrada]

[QUOTE=blender;6085268]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

As miserable as this season feels /QUOTE]
Man, this season feels great. Flames are competitive and playing important games.

Tough crowd, I guess.

Well the season started horribly and while they have got back in the race the team's star players haven't been very good which has led to lower entertainment value. I still watch but this has been the least entertaining season since Hartley's first season with the team IMO. I'm not saying they need to open things up to get an exciting brand but when your star players aren't playing well and you are a .500 team that's balanced out as a win one, lose one team it's not going to be an overly memorable season.

[Torture]

[QUOTE=Erick Estrada;6085356]

Originally Posted by blender

Well the season started horribly and while they have got back in the race the team's star players haven't been very good which has led to lower entertainment value. I still watch but this has been the least entertaining season since Hartley's first season with the team IMO. I'm not saying they need to open things up to get an exciting brand but when your star players aren't playing well and you are a .500 team that's balanced out as a win one, lose one team it's not going to be an overly memorable season.

This season has been more entertaining than last season IMO. Hard to get excited when you know that there's a back-breaking goal coming.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The Flames schedule till the end of the month:

vs
Panthers
Predators
Oilers

@
Maple Leafs
Canadiens
Senators

The only game there I'm legitimately worried about is the one vs. Toronto. Not a great record in Toronto, and that Leaf team is playing without fear. The other games, all of them, are very winnable. Even Montreal.